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Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? #735798
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:29 PM
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:29 PM
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Posts: 179
USA
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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I just picked up a Wayne 60 and wanted your opinions on if it was a showcase or not. It has two steel panel doors with round screw holes, but I don’t see how they would be original to the pump since the pump has hinges and the doors just screw on? Not sure though? Let me know if you guys think these are original doors or just tin someone added for a door? I also thought that it might be a showcase because of the middle plate that’s in the middle of the pump. The ID badge just says 60C and I’ve read that they’re supposed to be 60S, so maybe they stamped it wrong? Any help would be appreciated. The pump looks all original on the inside, the outside just has an old restoration. If you need more photos let me know.

Thank you



C76A3840-BA53-449E-852A-D6823E801AFA.jpeg4A8DB4A3-FDB9-4F09-B22E-7D840239829C.jpeg02883FA1-8766-4333-9418-E8BCAB61341E.jpegBA6B8424-E1B7-4C73-A6F5-682AD8E267D2.jpeg
Last edited by SeinfeldKramer; Sun Sep 15 2019 08:32 PM.
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Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735799
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:34 PM
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:34 PM
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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SeinfeldKramer  Offline OP
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More photos

5640C5C1-ABF2-4A2E-8C79-52617504EBA0.jpeg39767475-B91E-49EB-A8F1-15D8491C3764.jpegFA98BBAC-64F8-4537-B7E4-7A526A221E63.jpeg28958395-6E0D-432E-ADE8-4F60D816B099.jpeg
Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735800
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:35 PM
Sun Sep 15 2019 08:35 PM
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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SeinfeldKramer  Offline OP
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ID badge

2991F165-AD1D-40F6-85E4-00F4F061D731.jpeg
Last edited by SeinfeldKramer; Sun Sep 15 2019 11:27 PM.
Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735813
Sun Sep 15 2019 10:46 PM
Sun Sep 15 2019 10:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,622
St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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Jack Sim  Offline
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Both the 60C and the 60S are display case pumps.

About 30 years ago I was back in Philadelphia, (where I was born), visiting my brother. Had nothing to do so I went pump hunting. I ended up in the very northeast section of Philly. If I remember correctly it was at a Sunoco bulk plant. In two large rooms in the warehouse were about 40 Wayne 60's. The conversation got around to: "Why did those pumps that used to be display pumps, have doors on them?" What I was told was that after so many years Sonoco decided they did not want to use the display parts of the 60 so they removed the original door and used a porcelain Sunoco sign to cover it. From some of the converted pumps that I have seen two methods were used to attach the door. some were drilled out and just attached with screws, the other way is that the door was welded to the original hinges. This is evident because the heat of the welder melted the porcelain. One more thing I have seen these doors are being sold as signs, just look for where the melted porcelain (usually rusted) will be.

Jack Sim


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735815
Sun Sep 15 2019 11:33 PM
Sun Sep 15 2019 11:33 PM
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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Thank you Jack. So mine is a Showcase then? I was under the impression from others on this site that 60C stood for computer. Do my doors, that I have look period correct for a converted one, or do you think they’re new panels?

Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735822
Mon Sep 16 2019 07:08 AM
Mon Sep 16 2019 07:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,908
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
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Ryan Underthun  Online Content
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Duluth, MN U.S.A
The pictures are not the greatest. From what I can see it does appear that your pump is a showcase. The easiest way to tell is on the frame rails there is an indent below the face bezel for the showcase door to fit into when it closes. You can kind of see it in one of your photos.


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Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: Ryan Underthun] #735826
Mon Sep 16 2019 10:24 AM
Mon Sep 16 2019 10:24 AM
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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Is this the indent you’re referring to Ryan?



3CDF035F-CC52-4349-B4BC-3DD287A57803.jpegAB1A1450-CADC-40D6-B1E3-23F2B8DA43C9.jpeg
Last edited by SeinfeldKramer; Mon Sep 16 2019 10:25 AM.
Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735852
Mon Sep 16 2019 06:43 PM
Mon Sep 16 2019 06:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 7,622
St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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Jack Sim  Offline
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In my opinion, I don't believe there were any correct doors made to replace the display doors. Any doors put on the display pumps were made by the company doing the changes, in most cases this was Sonoco. Every one that I have seen look like they didn't spend too much time or effort in the placement of the doors.

Suggestion, why not try and bring back the pump to be a display pump? I believe the parts are available out there, or at least they used to be.

Jack Sim


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735874
Tue Sep 17 2019 06:57 AM
Tue Sep 17 2019 06:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,908
Duluth, MN U.S.A
Ryan Underthun Online content
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Ryan Underthun  Online Content
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Duluth, MN U.S.A
Yes, those are the indents.


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Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735903
Wed Sep 18 2019 06:55 AM
Wed Sep 18 2019 06:55 AM
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hamilton
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gasgeezer Offline
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hamilton
I found one identical to that here in Montana, was originaly Grizzly. Got all the parts i needed to return it to a showcase from Ron Scobie & I believe from GPH but cant remember for sure. took a little time but everything went together and now looks great. Had the motor and long drive shaft & was also stamped 60c

Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735905
Wed Sep 18 2019 10:16 AM
Wed Sep 18 2019 10:16 AM
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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I would love to get it back original, but I would never put any reproduction parts on it. I can’t stand looking at anything with reproduction pieces.

If anyone has original doors let me know.

Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735918
Wed Sep 18 2019 04:56 PM
Wed Sep 18 2019 04:56 PM
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Posts: 12,080
Devils Lake, ND---USA
K W FRITH Offline
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K W FRITH  Offline
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Normally I wouldn't bother commenting on this issue because it has been discussed at length in the past, but Seinfeld Kramer has reached out to me for my comments and I feel compelled to address this issue once again.
Jack Sim is the author of the Gas Pump book and I respect him for that BUT he has made other mistakes about gas pumps and I believe this to be one of them.
The Wayne 60S was the companys display pump and the 60C was their model intended for full length swinging doors. We all know that Wayne pump company and most other pump companies were prone to interchanging parts on the assembly line when a particular part came up as a shortage. The frame rails were a prime example. They weren't about to stop a production run of a certain model just because they were short a few parts, when they could substitute another workable part from a different model! This has been noted in many different pumps, and not just in Wayne pumps, but industry wide as a whole.
This leads me to explain about Waynes showcase pump and the reasons for a lot of "copycat" pumps being produced and the desire of some collectors to believe that other models were also "DISPLAY" pumps. While Kramers pump has at least 2 attributes of a 60S, it seemingly has none of the others, and there are several. For a Wayne 60 to be a TRUE display case pumps, it has to be labeled as a 60S and it has to contain all of the known attributes of an original display unit, or else it is simply another of the hundreds of Wayne 60's that has a display case part or two on it! Ask yourself---Why would a big company like Wayne build a display case pump and give it 2 different model designations? Its because they didn't and this issue has only come up because of the great desire to own one of the most iconic display pumps ever produced! That and the efforts by some greedy individuals to be able to market their forgeries at a much higher dollar value with the simple installation of a few parts that are readily available. Some of these dedicated display case parts have never been reproduced and are really the only way to identify these original display case pumps if the ID tag was previously removed.
While the 60C and 866C were designed with the pump in the lower half of the cabinet, it does not make them display pumps! It seems these pumps were made for companies like Atlantic that needed the full length swinging doors? There are several of these around the world ---BUT—there has NEVER been a case where an 866C or a 60C had a display case originally installed from the factory. There are many differences between a regular pump and a display case pump, and the only facet shared between the two is the lower pumpimg unit. The “C” models had none of the other attributes that a display case pump has, and there are many!
Secondally, I have probably owned and handled more Wayne 60 display case pumps, than anyone else in the country. I have personally owned four of the best examples I have ever seen of this model and have personally been involved in the sale and transfer of just as many. Because of my interest in this particular model, I have personally examined at least another dozen of this model and have found all of the 60S pumps to be exactly the same throughout.
As far as Jacks installation literature, it only shows that a 60S and a 60 C were installed the same way. In no part of the installation instructions does it reference the 60S and the 60C as being display pumps.
Until there is a documented case of someone finding an original 60C or 866C with all the display case parts in it, and I don’t mean just the lower display parts, I mean “everything” associated with a true display case, I will continue to argue the point that the C models are NOT DISPLAY CASE PUMPS, and were never meant to be. They only shared the lower pumping unit and why that is, no one yet knows. To call these display case pumps is wrong and I will continue to defend this principal, until someone can prove me wrong.


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Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735919
Wed Sep 18 2019 05:09 PM
Wed Sep 18 2019 05:09 PM
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Posts: 179
USA
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SeinfeldKramer Offline OP
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Thanks Guys

Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735931
Wed Sep 18 2019 07:49 PM
Wed Sep 18 2019 07:49 PM
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Posts: 77
Indianapolis, IN
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yeley101 Offline
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Indianapolis, IN
I completely agree with Kevin. The 60C is not a showcase (60S). I looked at two of these 60C's about a year and a half ago, both unmolested. While there were a few things that looked similar to a 60S, they did not have everything that would make them a 60S. Of course the hinged doors that looked like they had never been messed with was one thing, but the biggee for me was there were no light manifolds for the showcase, nor any evidence that they were there at one time. These pumps looked like they were just made to be empty cabinets (maybe for storage?).
One other comment I have is this......it has been believed by many that ALL 60S pumps have an indentation on the frame rail for the showcase door. While most I have seen do have this, I have seen two that do not have this in the frame rail. I actually own one of those that does not have the indentation.....it has never been taken apart or molested in any way. Anyone who has one of these pumps can see that there is NOTHING on a showcase door that would keep it from closing properly without this accommodation in the rail anyway. As Kevin mentioned above, if a part normally used was needed and out of stock, they likely grabbed the next available thing to keep production going.

Re: Is this a Wayne 60 Showcase? [Re: SeinfeldKramer] #735958
Thu Sep 19 2019 03:40 PM
Thu Sep 19 2019 03:40 PM
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Posts: 7,622
St. Louis, MO, USA
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Jack Sim Offline
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This is to confirm that Kevin is correct, the 60C is not a showcase pump. My mistake comes from the original Wayne parts sheet for the 60C. On the front they show a drawing of the pump with a showcase, but when you turn the page over to see a detail of everything on the pump, it doesn't show the display.

Jack Sim


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available

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