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#700898 - Wed Dec 20 2017 06:59 AM New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
New to forum, amateur restorer/collector, trying to become educated on Bowser, sheet metal, sliding top, gas pump.
Where is sales data/photo and more for Bowser 245?
Thank you
Craig


Attachments
20171219_Bowser1_640.jpg



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Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#700905 - Wed Dec 20 2017 10:09 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
My Bowser literature shows the 245 to be a curb oil dispenser, it is almost identical to the 241 which is a gasoline dispenser. Your pump is a gas dispenser.

I have sales literature and ads for the 241, email me if interested. jhsim@petrocollect.com

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#700906 - Wed Dec 20 2017 10:59 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thank you Jack,I have a magazine ad 1917 show this model, I am assuming it is a Bowser 245 just based on my limited research.




Attachments
1917BowserAdShoptalk1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Dec 20 2017 11:46 AM)

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#700909 - Wed Dec 20 2017 12:36 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
3 more photos of my Bowser.
I have owned this for 30+ years and did an amateur restoration 30 years ago and then lent it to a friend for his man cave because I didn't have room. Friend moved to Florida and returned it.

I bought a fresh Bowser plate for the top at Hershey. I have the stamped original.

I screwed new pipes in the top to fit the current room height, left off the old vacuum break. I am looking for it now. I have seen it lately rolling around my shop.

Is this pump a Bowser 245?
Thank you
Craig


Attachments
20171220_083102a.jpg

20171220_083122a.jpg

20171220_083203a.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Dec 20 2017 12:39 PM)

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#700912 - Wed Dec 20 2017 01:30 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
My understanding, after several days of web browsing, is the 1922 Bowser Advertisement indicates you could purchase an after market Bowser kit to convert your piston pump Bowser into a visible pump. Either a single 5 gallon or a double 5 gallon, with side lights and an added top globe if desired.
Is this correct?

Shown in the black background photo panel, the before visible on the left, after kitted on the right.....3 different piston type Bowsers....but not limited to these Bowser piston models.

The the middle two photos show a Bowser 245 before and then converted to a single 5 gallon. Correct?
could have easily been a double 5 with globe.


Attachments
BowserVisibleConversions1922b640.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Dec 20 2017 03:17 PM)

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#700913 - Wed Dec 20 2017 02:07 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
gaspumpfrank Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 01 2007
Loc: Stella, NC
This is one I restored few years ago.


Attachments
CIMG0301.JPG



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#700915 - Wed Dec 20 2017 02:28 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: gaspumpfrank]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thank you, looking good.
Is this a 245?

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#700916 - Wed Dec 20 2017 02:33 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
cover rolled about to lock up pump. But I don't have the correct Red Sentry Filtered Gasoline logo, probably missing other details as well.


Attachments
20171220_130613a.jpg



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#700917 - Wed Dec 20 2017 03:17 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
gaspumpfrank Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 01 2007
Loc: Stella, NC
yes 245

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#700920 - Wed Dec 20 2017 04:46 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
The pump cannot be a 245.
1. Oil dispenser did not have hoses, oil was pumped into a oil can then dispensed into the car.
2. The hose is a gas hose, look at the size of it, and look at the nozzle, it is a gas nozzle, oil dispensers did not have nozzles.
3. Oil dispensers generally did not have globes.

I have an original Bowser color brochure dated 1916. It shows your identical pump, globe and everything. It has the same hose, same globe, etc. In the upper right corner it states: "Bowser Bulletin Cut 241.
A color picture of the 241 is also shown on page 92 of the Gas Pump Identification book that I wrote.
You might want to go to this page of my website and click on 241: http://petrolianacollectibles.com/bowser%20pumps.htm

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#700926 - Wed Dec 20 2017 06:36 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
gaspumpfrank Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 01 2007
Loc: Stella, NC
Yes, I see it now Jack It doesn't Have the spicket to dispensed the oil. Thanks Frank

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#700927 - Wed Dec 20 2017 06:41 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
gaspumpfrank Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 01 2007
Loc: Stella, NC
Yes, I see it now Jack It doesn't Have the spicket to dispensed the oil. Thanks Frank Craig looks like a 241

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#700951 - Thu Dec 21 2017 06:45 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am confused, I thought a cut 241 was a cast iron, clam shell, swinging door, piston pump Bowser with cut 241 cast into the front lower panel. I have seen many photos of this cast 241 model.

And the Bowser cut 245 was a roll door, sheet metal, piston pump later model.

Both configurable to pump oil or gas as required. both had a scrollable measure stop to allow 1 pint, 1 quart, 1/2 gallon, 1 gallon.

Am I understanding this correctly?
Thanks
Craig

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#700953 - Thu Dec 21 2017 07:12 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
here is what my understanding of a cut 241 looks like.
This shiny restored pump shows a swing nozzle and a tall discharge as well


Attachments
cut241front.jpg

cut241frontpanel.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 21 2017 09:34 AM)

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#700954 - Thu Dec 21 2017 07:16 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
here is another version cut 241 with visible added.

It appears the center, brass pipe is only holding the visible addition.
There is a brass fill pipe and a valved drain port, but no overflow/flowback pipe.



Attachments
cut241visiblefront.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 21 2017 10:38 AM)

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#700955 - Thu Dec 21 2017 07:50 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
In surfing about, I found this photo of what appears to be a repainted pump with the original gold leaf graphics taped off prior to a lighter red respray.
Were the Bowser graphics actually gold leaf (fire truck style) on these vintage Bowser pumps?


Attachments
BowserRollTopGrpahics1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 21 2017 07:54 AM)

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#700956 - Thu Dec 21 2017 07:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
here is another set of sheet metal, roll top Bowsers.
This again might indicate what the original graphics should be on a roll top Bowser.


Attachments
BowserRollTopGrpahics2.jpg



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#700960 - Thu Dec 21 2017 09:25 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
It appears to me that the cut 245 could be easily configured to either oil or gasoline use as required,
and what allowed "filtered gasolene", on a cut 245,
was the filter with a drain.
When a 245 was configured for oil use, this vertical cylinder, drainable filter was not installed.


Attachments
BowserFilter1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 21 2017 10:23 AM)

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#700961 - Thu Dec 21 2017 09:38 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
The Bowser cut 241 has a tall, skinny filter? with a drain?


Attachments
cut241Filter1.jpg



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#700984 - Thu Dec 21 2017 06:11 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I found what I believe to be a Bowser cut 245 oil pump.
painted green, name plate lists London, Ontario, Sydney....and Fort Wayne.
gas filter replaced by an oil can platform, no swing nozzle, a drain for spilled oil at platform, top center cap is closed.
The trip meter for tracking quantity is not installed, again a feature found on a 245 oil pump.

This sold at auction for $2000+ in 2015


Attachments
Cut245_OilPump1.jpg

Cut245_OilPump2.jpg

Cut245_OilPump3.jpg

Cut245_OilPump4.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 21 2017 07:25 PM)

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#700987 - Thu Dec 21 2017 06:24 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
JimT Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
Thanks for sharing this info. I like these-nice looking pumps. That Cut 245 is a nice looking oil pump

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#700991 - Thu Dec 21 2017 07:45 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
My 245 oil pump has the same cast iron top. Same cast base & sheet metal pedestal,
but the top plate of the pedestal is different and the crack mech & box is different.
It has the same top cap, lock, sheet metal door and has threads for conduit which was used on the gasoline model for the light.
They could make either pump by changing a about 3 parts in the cabinet and a bigger cylinder for the gas pump. The oil pump only goes to 1/2 gallon
But Patent was not applied for until 1917.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en

Jack, in your book you have BOTH sheet metal and cast pumps listed as 1910.
That can't be correct.
Why would anyone submit a patent for something that has been in the field for 7 yrs? By then it would be obsolete.
1916 is more believable. What month in 1916 is the ad from?
Would you care to post part of the ad to confirm the model & date of the document in question, since it can't be read from your site?
There is no evidence to be found in a document you "can't read".
You hold the burden of proof now that you declared you have such a document. I would like to see proof of your claim without having to buy it.
The reason why I ask is because there is conflicting information here. Just a legible part of the ad with all components,
(partial pump pic, date & model), that should not be too hard and will not give anyone a way to copy your ad.
Without sharing that information after making a claim, your statement is not credible.
You were wrong about your decals, so I need to see proof of your claim. I think others may like to see some evidence of your claims too.


If any of you will take the time to read the abstract, you will see that this cabinet was NOT assigned to Bowser and that this is an
"IMPROVEMENT PATENT"
It took me SEVERAL months to find this Patent information and when I shared it to everyone on the site, all I got was shot down by naysayers.
I know it could have gone into production BEFORE applying for the patent, but not 7 yrs. This pump WAS NOT MADE IN 1910
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1274039A/en


Attachments
011.JPG

012.JPG


_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#700993 - Thu Dec 21 2017 08:13 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
As far as I know the pipe under the clock dial & totalizer,
that has the valve on the bottom is for releasing
built up air, water etc. in the system.
Air eliminators were on or in ALL electric pumping units.
"The big rattly can in a Gilbarco, etc" is an Air Eliminator.


Edited by jkyocom (Thu Dec 21 2017 09:15 PM)
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#700999 - Thu Dec 21 2017 09:44 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Joe,

If you had taken the time to read the patent you suggested above, you will find that it is not a patent for the pump, it is a patent for a improvement in the door of any pump. There is no mention of the Bowser Pump Company in the patent application and almost all of Bowser patents were issued to A.A. Bowser of the Bowser Pump Co.

Also, you need to learn a little about reading patents. Everyone is interested in when was the patent issued. It takes years to get a patent issued. Take a good look at the patent, you will notice that the patent was applied for on July 9, 1911. The application date is more important than the issue date.

Ok, my book, it was written in 2008 and I am sure there are many mistakes because I can either make the mistake in typing, but most are from estimating things such as dates. Presently I cannot find any information as to why I picked the 1910 date, but I did find that in 1911 Bowser made a special painted “Red Sentry” for stations on the Lincoln Highway and this pump was the first pump to be called the "Red Sentry."

Back to gas pumps. First, very few gas pump companies bothered to even submit an application for a patent for a gas pump, they just made them. This was true even up into the 1950s. I have never found a suit where a pump company was sued for patent infringement.
Next, improvement were made in pumps all the time, sometimes to make them better, some to make them cheaper to make. The pump companies didn't bother to apply for a patent for these changes and they didn't bother to put this information in their sales literature. Also, many times the patent, if there was one, did not match what the final product even looked like.
Also, you make mention of some decals, I don't sell decals and I don't repair computers. I sell literature, while I have given away literature I have never given it away to anyone who demanded it.

Jack Sim


Edited by Jack Sim (Thu Dec 21 2017 09:48 PM)
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#701011 - Fri Dec 22 2017 06:56 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am realizing that the oil pump version of a cut 245 has a different name plate/ID plate. It does not state RED SENTRY rather BOWSER.
This maybe a determining factor in identifying a cut 245 gas pump versus oil pump.
I would expect all RED SENTRY would be factory issued in red paint.
Seem like oil pumps were painted green as a general rule?

Looks like L47412 stamped on this plate.

My RED SENTRY is stamped L51204.

What is stamped on your cut 245 OEM plate?




Attachments
Cut245_OilPump4.jpg

20171220_083424a (1).jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 22 2017 09:03 AM)

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#701016 - Fri Dec 22 2017 08:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
My Red Sentry is missing a simple piece that appears to be part of the approved calibration.
This is a simple sheet metal bent tab piece, to the left of the pump arm pivot, connected to the stop "peg" for one gallon.
Also looks to be a fillister head machine screw, holding this tab piece, drilled for being "lead sealed" to this tab.

I need someone to take this piece off and photo, to allow me to fabricate one for my pump please.
Also a close up of the 10-24, straight slot, drilled fillister head?

Thank you
Craig


Attachments
Cut245RedSentryMissingPiece1.JPG

Cut245RedSentryMissingPiece2.JPG

Cut245RedSentryMissingPiece3.JPG




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 22 2017 02:50 PM)

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#701053 - Sat Dec 23 2017 05:29 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I found a later built cut 245 Red Sentry and I see the ID plate must have been continually revised to the current patent dates.

Here is N29473
Check out the string of patent dates.

Also this tag is reverse color scheme with silver text on black.

At what date did this Bowser cut 245 ID tag reverse tag color scheme?





Attachments
N29473plate.jpg

20171220_083424a (1).jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Dec 23 2017 05:53 AM)

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#701102 - Sun Dec 24 2017 02:04 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Most of the answers to the questions you are posting cannot be answered. This type of information was for company records even if it was even noted. Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.

Also, the Bowser company closed their doors around 1960. In those days most company records were thrown in the trash rather than given to the local historical museum.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#701118 - Sun Dec 24 2017 11:14 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Interesting Bowser item on Ebay.


Attachments
UKBowserPatent1923.jpg



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#701124 - Sun Dec 24 2017 04:18 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am noticing as I look at cut 245 Bowser pumps, that there is a continual improving of this 245 model. For instance the higher serial number pump not only shows a change in name plate graphics, but also shows a change in steel construction. Instead of rivets used to construct the rolling lid/cover some other method, maybe welding or brazing is used.

Here again is N29473, no rivets top or bottom edge.

Check out the green oil pump 245 above.
Check out the two unrestored 245s above the green oil pump.
My 245 is riveted construction.
check out the top post, this page, rolling cover as well.



Attachments
20161118_164010.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sun Dec 24 2017 04:32 PM)

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#701254 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:44 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thanks Joe, It is very cool to have patent drawings of this Bowser cut 241 pump still available online.



Attachments
PatentDrawingCropUS1274039-0.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:24 PM)

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#701255 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:50 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am blown away with the three different fonts used to produce the gold leaf lettering on these Bowser cut 241 gas pumps.
It appears there are two wide stripes around the circumference as well, not gold leafed, but gold paint.

I can't think of another gas pump with gold leaf lettering about the pump manufacturer.

Has anyone reproduced this magnificent set of Bowser gas pump graphics?





Attachments
20161118_164016.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:23 PM)

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#701256 - Tue Dec 26 2017 09:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: Jack Sim]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By Jack Sim
Model numbers/serial numbers can be found in the Blue book, but not this information.


Thanks Jack, Where is this Blue book found? I am not familiar with it.
Does it go back far enough to address Bowser pumps pre 1927?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Craig

Edit - I did find it on Amazon used thanks



Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 10:10 AM)

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#701271 - Tue Dec 26 2017 02:23 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I have found, in period print, a reference that explains cut 241, and it makes no sense to me, but I am going back on this thread and correcting.
Must have been a federal regulation or tax implication.
Craig
I can't correct page 1,2 of this thread.


Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:38 PM)

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#701273 - Tue Dec 26 2017 02:45 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Here is a photo crop of a British document, not my reference above, found on line and refers to the RED SENTRY as stated.
The drawing shows a red cut 241 Bowser pump without the RED SENTRY name plate.
Nice to know the UK were using Bowser pumps in this era.


Attachments
bowser5.jpg




Edited by tokig (Tue Dec 26 2017 02:49 PM)

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#701274 - Tue Dec 26 2017 03:36 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
Jack Sim Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Nov 10 2000
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Even before December 7, 1941 this country was building war material, no one doubted we were going to war soon. Also, we were supplying war material to Britain and Russia. When the war really started this country needs raw material to make tanks, airplanes, etc. The war department called on the gas pump industry to promote the scraping of old gas pumps. What they did first was to compile a list of gas pump companies that were still in business and they asked these companies to list the pump model numbers and when they were made. The government suggested that pumps that were of a certain age be scrapped for the war effort. Three editions were prepared, the last one even extended into the 1950s, because again we were making war material for the Korean War.

In buying all the service station literature that I have, I do have original copies of all three Blue Books.

Many companies sold pumps in Europe, some even had either factories or assembly plants.

You might be surprised to know that in Australia what we collect and call gas pumps are referred to as "Bowsers." My assumption is that when the first pump was installed someone looked at the face plate and said that is a "Bowser." No matter who made the pumps, they are Bowsers.

Jack Sim
_________________________
Author, Gas Pump Identfication books 1st & 2nd Editions & Air Meter Identification books
We rebuild ECO air meters and sell parts.

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#701311 - Wed Dec 27 2017 08:52 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
It appears on the cut 245 oil pump Bowser ID/Name label, the locations of London, England, Ontario, Canada, Sydney, Australia and Fort Wayne Indiana. So Bowser pumps would have had a notable presence in these countries. In casually looking at the difference between the cast iron 241 and the sheet metal 241, there may not be any interchangeable parts. So my guess is that (1914-1918) WW1 brought about some requests/regulation from the US government that required Bowser to not change it's model number with the introduction of this new model. I am not sure how the other gas pump manufacturers were affected, but maybe this had a holding pattern for them as well.
But let's not digress, this thread is about 241/245 identification, not other manufacturers.

I am looking further at this 245 oil pump and I see the cast iron base plate does not contain a lock slot for a hose nozzle.
So this alone would ID quickly an unrestored Bowser, at least for me.

It would be wonderful if there were some ads or documents on 1914-1922 Bowser pumps from England, or Australia.

Are there any parts books for Bowser documenting these 241/245?


Attachments
Cut245_OilPumpPair2.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Dec 27 2017 08:53 AM)

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#701319 - Wed Dec 27 2017 02:14 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
British version of a Bowser cut 241...........Petrol


Attachments
L_A.C.%20Pumps%20(60).jpg



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#701332 - Wed Dec 27 2017 06:01 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
Jack, you apparently failed to read what I said since you repeated it back to me.


I did miss the other date, but now there is conflicting info between the drawing and the text in the patent office.
The pic says filed 1917.
The text says 1911, so how do YOU PROVE which is correct?

If you look a bit closer the text is FULL OF TYPOS.
That is no typo on the drawing.

But tokig has backtracked it to 1914 as fact
This takes the pump back to 1913 In "Europe"
These are sheet metal versions.
https://books.google.com/books?id=7RY-AQ...ain&f=false
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#701336 - Wed Dec 27 2017 06:46 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
This is at the end of the patent description

"In testimony whereof I have signed my name to this specification, on this 25th day of June A. D. 1917.

SHERWOOD HINDS."
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#701353 - Thu Dec 28 2017 05:38 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I am noticing the Bowser oil pump configurations have additional differences from a gas pump version.

1) no slot for nozzle lock up
2) no vertical filter with drain
3) front sheet metal panel held on with screws
4) no pipes out the top
5) cut 245 has no meter, cut 241 oil has meter.

Here is an "Accessory and Garage Journal" report from Feb 1919.
Not very clear, but it seems to do what's pertinent.



Attachments
AccessoryGarageJournalFeb1919.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Dec 28 2017 08:50 AM)

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#701359 - Thu Dec 28 2017 08:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Interesting find on Bowser pumps 245 and 241.


Attachments
A&E1919245241.jpg



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#701401 - Fri Dec 29 2017 07:22 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Another Bowser cut 241 ad posted in an obscure British magazine.
Sheet metal Bowser 241 version pictured in ad as a drawing, but the street photo shows the earlier Bowser 241 cast iron swing door model.

Petrol globes indicating a British influence.




Attachments
May1920IndianEasternEngineer1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 29 2017 07:27 AM)

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#701434 - Fri Dec 29 2017 06:32 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I was able to order "drilled, fillister head, 10x24 screw" from Ebay seller.
Had to order 20 with free shipping.....about $5.
Now I have enough for 100 years, but the best way for me to complete the task.
I still need to fabricate the locking tab, see page two of this thread.

This locking tab holds the 1 gallon stop, after official calibration, and is supposed to have an official wire and lead seal.


Attachments
NewFillister1.jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Dec 29 2017 06:38 PM)

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#701454 - Sat Dec 30 2017 09:19 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
It looks like about 1922 Bowser started offering visible pump conversion kits for their pre-visible pumps, one of which was the later model, sliding door cut 241.

I found a 1922 ad for such kits, not much info other sales blab, but very interesting.

This single, 5 gallon cylinder kit was called a Bowser C-2, but I haven't found any Bowser literature on this kit identification. Can anyone shed light on this?

Just prior to this Bowser kit, I believe American Oil Pump & Tank had been offering a similar 5 gallon visible kit......but I could have the offer order mixed up.

The Bowser C-2 visible kit was more elaborate with a locking selector valve and lighting, from what I see.


Attachments
1922BowserAd.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Dec 30 2017 09:32 AM)

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#701458 - Sat Dec 30 2017 09:47 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
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Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
A closer look at the Bowser visible kit cylinders shows the selector valve.....Return-Fill-Car are the three selector positions.

See the hinged door with a lock to secure the selector indicator needle.



Attachments
BowserVisibleAddImage1 (2).jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Dec 30 2017 03:33 PM)

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#701550 - Sun Dec 31 2017 05:59 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I was able to purchase an American Oil Pump & Tank company sales poster, from gaspumpfrank, that identifies some of the kits they offered in 1922 or so..........Bowser, G&B, Wayne, Milwaukee, Rapidayton and an artist drawing of the kits.

Bowser cut 241 is shown, and the kit differs significantly from the Bowser visible kit, but accomplishes the same thing.


Attachments
FrankVisiblePoster3.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sun Dec 31 2017 06:02 PM)

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#701583 - Mon Jan 01 2018 09:06 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
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Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Happy New Year, welcome to 2018.

The later built Bowser cut 241 have more information in the form of tags screwed to the base plate of the pump,

You learn the vertical, plugged pipe with a drain cock facing outward is a centrifugal water separator.......and must be drained weekly.

Earlier versions of this Bowser cut 241 tagging referred to the same pipe as Filter, with similar instructions.

The other tag simply states full stroke to measured stop and back is the correct operation.



Attachments
20161118_164223.jpg




Edited by tokig (Mon Jan 01 2018 09:52 AM)

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#701652 - Mon Jan 01 2018 09:20 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
JimT Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
Happy New Year to you as well. Thank you for the large amount of information that you have contributed since you've joined.

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#701818 - Thu Jan 04 2018 11:01 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Here is a closer look at the American Oil Pump & Tank kit installed on a cut 241.

Rather simplistic and without enough detail to determine what the kit consisted of in total.

Possibly a 5 gallon pressed steel top, 5 gallon cast base, etc.

Fill comes up thru the center, discharge is to the hose, the third pipe could either be an overflow, electrical conduit, cylinder drain.
Anyone have photos or info on this particular visible kit?





Attachments
VisKitAmericanOn241.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Jan 04 2018 11:32 AM)

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#701950 - Sat Jan 06 2018 06:02 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Here is an example of an unrestored Bowser cut 241.
I only have this one picture of this exact pump.
I thought it would give a good view of the pieces that make up a 241, so I started numbering the pieces to allow discussion.
I want to see if this photo will post, as the file size appears okay.
This Bowser 241 photo is a little tall.
This Bowser 241 is missing the top light bowl, but I picked it because of that fact and clarity it gives the upper pieces.

electrical conduit 5 is not connected to the discharge hose adaptor 4a, altho it might appear that way because they lined up in this photo.
electrical conduit 5 runs behind 4 and 4a directly to electrical box 3.
electrical box 3 and hose/pipe 4/4a are not connected.


Attachments
241UnrestoredSlider_2_y.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Jan 06 2018 07:11 AM)

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#701961 - Sat Jan 06 2018 12:11 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
My 245 Oil Pump has a hole in the pedestal top plate for conduit.
It is a different plate than the 241, and the top cast piece has threads for the conduit to come up through the pedestal plate,
and there are 1/2" pipe threads in the cast top under the cap
If I am not mistaken Bowser invented the water separator.
I seem to remember seeing a patent for it in my searches.
I made you a copper copy of the part you are missing and will send it to you if you email me your address.
It will be a little over sized, you will need to make the new one out of stronger material, cutting the hex hole will be tricky.
Thanks
Joe
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#702123 - Mon Jan 08 2018 07:22 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thanks Joe, I need the pattern. I took a guess and made this drawing using a slugging wrench sketch I found on line.
I don't know how I will make a hex hole in the steel or aluminum.

Looks like a 9/16" hex hole = 0.563" AF




Attachments
calibration2.jpg




Edited by tokig (Mon Jan 08 2018 07:35 PM)

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#702126 - Mon Jan 08 2018 07:47 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Also found a reference to Lincoln Highway and Bowser cut 241 Swing door.


Attachments
LincolnHiwayBowser241SwingDoor.jpg



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#702136 - Mon Jan 08 2018 08:56 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
This 8" x 10" photograph was acquired at an estate sale in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. It depicts an artist's rendering of the Bowser Model 241-H. This gasoline pump bears the logo of LINCOLN HIGHWAY. Logo was red on top, white in center and a blue stripe across the bottom. Several early national highways were named/lettered prior to numbering. The Lincoln Highway ran through the Midwest and the city of Fort Wayne. Model 241-H "Long Distance" Pump had an exposed hose; the exposed hose model first became available in 1904 by the S.F. Bowser & Co. of Fort Wayne, Indiana. Lightly stamped on back: Herb Harnish Collection. History of Fort Wayne (2006, ed. Beatty, p. 189): "Sylvanus Bowser became the first local entrepreneur to step out of the shadows through the importance of his invention: the first modern gasoline dispenser. The pump made Fort Wayne a world center of cutting-edge technology. Bowser himself was almost as legendary as the auto moguls of Auburn, Indianapolis or Detroit. Like Ford, he had a knack both for marketing and public relations. His Bowser pumps proclaimed his name up and down the Lincoln Highway, and his marketing catalogs reflected the high quality of workmanship that he motivated his staff to produce in all aspects of their work. Having become the preeminent leader in a rapidly growing field, the industry attracted competition by both Tokheim Corporation and Wayne Pump, both of which were also headquartered in Fort Wayne." Note: The digital i.d. (jbk archive) is not printed on the actual photograph.


Attachments
s-l1600.jpg




Edited by tokig (Mon Jan 08 2018 09:02 PM)

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#702160 - Tue Jan 09 2018 04:58 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
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Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Lincoln Highway map.


Attachments
LincolnHighwayMap2.jpg



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#702225 - Wed Jan 10 2018 07:38 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
The first gasoline pump was invented and sold by Sylvanus F. Bowser in Fort Wayne on September 5, 1885.
This pump was used for kerosene lamps and stoves.
The term bowser was used to refer to a vertical gasoline pump.
Although the term is not used anymore in the United States, it still is used sometimes in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.

The Bowser Company produced special gas pumps for filling stations along the Lincoln and Dixie Highways.
The company had an agreement with the LHA that Lincoln Highway pumps would be available only to businesses along the official Lincoln Highway route.

This photograph captures the Bowser Company's 1915 Lincoln Highway Day parade entry
featuring the Bowser cut 241 Sentry Pumps for the Lincoln and El Camino Real Highways.
There are two other Bowser cut 241 pumps which appear to have different graphics but are not clearly seen.
Sylvanus F. Bowser is on the left. (Courtesy of the Allen County-Fort Wayne Historical Society.)
Bowser Parade Truck

Lincoln Highway Map



Attachments
BowserDisplayTruck175.jpg




Edited by tokig (Wed Jan 10 2018 09:02 AM)

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#702246 - Wed Jan 10 2018 04:16 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
jkyocom Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 15 2006
Loc: GA
I finally got the part in a box.
Now to try to get to the post office again.......
_________________________
Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
Veeder Root Identification CD
Gas Pump Clock Repair
jkyocom@bellsouth.net

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#702271 - Thu Jan 11 2018 07:27 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Interesting and historical photo of a early Bowser cut 241, swing door, being used to fill a 1911 Auburn.
Evidently the Auburn gas tank is under the front seat.
Note there are no high pipes coming out the top of the Bowser 241 pump.
The gasoline fill hose is plumbed off the swing nozzle.

1911 Auburn Bowser 241 curbside fill



Attachments
1911-Auburn-w-Bowser-pumpCrop2.jpg




Edited by tokig (Thu Jan 11 2018 07:44 AM)

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#702298 - Thu Jan 11 2018 06:15 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
JimT Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
You sure have contributed a ton of info on these pumps. Thank you.

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#702318 - Fri Jan 12 2018 06:52 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Thanks Jim, It would be nice to see others with this series pump in any condition. It would help to add to the data base of info, especially if there was a serial number to reference as well.

These Bowser cut 241 curbside gas pumps were very popular in England, and I believe, even manufactured in England as well.

Most of the British 241 are slider tops, the later version, and they seem to have a "waisted" center pipe containing both the fill pipe and electrical conduit,
Also seem to have a square bowl on top as well.

And a more practical dial indicator of gallons registering up to 15 gallons, possibly no rotary small amount stop scale.



Attachments
DSCF0417a.jpg

BritCut241BowserRegent.jpg




Edited by tokig (Fri Jan 12 2018 07:08 AM)

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#702323 - Fri Jan 12 2018 07:34 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
gaspumpfrank Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Dec 01 2007
Loc: Stella, NC
Craig' Keep the good work up Loving it!!

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#702367 - Sat Jan 13 2018 08:51 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
A little more on the period British Bowser 241..........
Here is Lawrence's Garage, a Filling Station in London with two Bowser 241 slide door pumps framing the closest door, off behind shows another set of pumps and not so clearly a large portable compressor at the left rear wheel of a vehicle.
The 241s appear to have round bowl tops with globes that are PETROL.
The pump operator closest is cranking the Bowser as you can see.

The pumps described as "four modern pumps".

London Filling Station Bowser cut 241


Attachments
LondonImage3.jpg




Edited by tokig (Sat Jan 13 2018 09:18 AM)

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#702545 - Mon Jan 15 2018 01:03 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
Patent drawing showing the sliding top details.

Patent drawing top details


Attachments
US1274039-1small.jpg




Edited by tokig (Mon Jan 15 2018 01:05 PM)

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#702634 - Tue Jan 16 2018 06:43 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
February 1914 Automobile Club of Southern California - Touring News
LINCOLN HIGHWAY SENTRY FOR NATION WIDE ROAD
The greatest monument ever erected in honor of any man is the Lincoln Highway named in honor of our hero statesman and martyred President Abraham Lincoln Extending across the Continent from coast to coast it stands a vivid example of the possibilities for the Good Roads movement and the automobile industry This highway will soon be the National Road for all cross country tourists and towns and cities through which it passes may well consider themselves fortunate As has been the case in every other phase of gasolene and oil storage SF Bowser & Company Inc have come to the front with equipment designed for the convenience and comfort of the tourist or local autoist and which affords to dealers handling gasolene a fine opportunity to effectively solicit their business The Bowser Lincoln Highway Sentry Gasolene Pump will be a welcome guidepost to those traveling the Lincoln Highway and an ever ready source of pure filtered gasolene free from water and other impurities Autoists have long since learned that it pays to buy a good grade of fuel of uniform quality and have become accustomed to watch for the Bowser Red Sentry Gasolene Pump Now when they see the Lincoln Highway Sentry they will drive up with a feeling of satisfaction knowing that they will receive gasolene with all its original power producing qualities free from water and other impurities The garage or supply house who has this pump installed in front of their place of business will be known nationally as one link in the chain of gasolene supply stations covering the Lincoln Highway from the Atlantic to the Pacific The outfit is the Bowser Standard Red Sentry equipment with the exception that the doors of the pump are an exact representation of the Lincoln Highway sign It is equipped standard with meter filter discharge register two way nozzle hose and portable nozzle The equipment will be sold only for use on the Lincoln Highway and for no other place This means that the pump will not be sold for use at any other point except on the exact route mapped out as the Highway In cities through which the Highway passes it can be used only on the streets designated as the Highway and on no others To the garage man or dealer who is located directly on the route of the Highway it means an advantage which those not so located do not have The equipment bears the Bowser guarantee as to quality of material and workmanship It is built to conform to that measure of safety prescribed by the National Board of Fire Underwriters and is labeled under the supervision of their laboratories .


Edited by tokig (Tue Jan 16 2018 06:46 PM)

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#702635 - Tue Jan 16 2018 06:59 PM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
February 1914 Ad for Bowser 241 pump system


Attachments
ACSCTouringNewsFeb1914.jpg



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#702662 - Yesterday at 08:23 AM Re: New 2 Forum, Bowser 245 schooling required [Re: tokig]
tokig Online   content
Active Member

Registered: Wed Dec 20 2017
Loc: West Virginia
I bought and lightly screwed in place, a new white fabric covered fill hose for my Bowser slide door cut 241.
Big Deal, but that is my cold weather extent of restoration capability.

I am still struggling to find for this 241 slide door -
1)top lighted bowl of correct shape and size.
2)Red Sentry graphics that I can peel and stick for low cost restoration.
3) Bowser issued sales literature, parts literature.
4)Installation, in fact any literature, on the visible kits issued as an upgrade.

As you can see, I am trying to light the open face of this pump with easy parts to obtain. Somebody gonna tell me this is not correct? Really?

Need mental help!


Attachments
20171222_NewWhiteHose2.jpg




Edited by tokig (Yesterday at 08:27 AM)

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