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Mobilubricant grease pail #686131
Fri May 05 2017 11:08 AM
Fri May 05 2017 11:08 AM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Here is a challenge for forum members. I am in need of information concerning a Mobil grease container made sometime in the 1930's. I participate in research on Amelia Earhart, and we need help determining the dimensions of what appears to be a grease pail she is loading onto her Electra aircraft. Here is a link to our discussion;

https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1937.0.html

As you can see we have been having problems, and any help in resolving this issue would be greatly appreciated. Why is the can she holds minus the Pegasus or Gargoyle symbol?

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Fri May 05 2017 11:19 AM.
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Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686134
Fri May 05 2017 11:30 AM
Fri May 05 2017 11:30 AM
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this is what I believe too be can of subject w/gargoyle,
can is 5" X 5" & 6 1/2" high .. ... cool

IMG_2685[1].JPGIMG_2684[1].JPG

RANDY
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: advertologist] #686142
Fri May 05 2017 02:02 PM
Fri May 05 2017 02:02 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Thank you for that can image Randy, ..However ; I believe the can we need has no trademark emblems upon it. The picture isn't really good, but it appears that Mobilubricant is the label upon that Eathart can. It may well be that Mobilgrease NO 2 and similar Mobil labeled cans are the same size. But we want to be absolutely sure the can she holds are those same dimensions. I am just learning and haven't been able to put up an image, but will keep trying. Maybe someone here can help and put an image up for me? Thanks in advance.

Tighar forum ....research needed ..Mobilubricant

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Fri May 05 2017 02:06 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686154
Fri May 05 2017 05:45 PM
Fri May 05 2017 05:45 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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pail - Tighar

Here is a link to the image in the meantime, until, I learn image posting.
Note that only one visible side carries the Mobilubricant name.

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Fri May 05 2017 05:49 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686163
Fri May 05 2017 08:59 PM
Fri May 05 2017 08:59 PM
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Here is the fuzzy image ...I don't believe there is a pegasus or a Gargoyle on the can. Is this an early knock off product , or foreign copy of the Mobil product?

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Fri May 05 2017 09:01 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686208
Sat May 06 2017 09:23 PM
Sat May 06 2017 09:23 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Here is the image from which the can was captured. I tried all the enhancement tools I had available, but couldn't read the smaller print, which may help in determining the can's country of origin.The label on the can is a bit clearer in this image, and we are reasonably certain it says Mobilubricant.
Does anyone here collect foreign made cans or know of a good source of information concerning them? Anyone that can enhance the image so that the small print on the can is legible?
Thank you for looking.

Jerry
http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/904/rec/26


Last edited by Jerry Germann; Sat May 06 2017 09:54 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686209
Sat May 06 2017 09:56 PM
Sat May 06 2017 09:56 PM
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It's not a French or German can. The issue with the French grease/lubricant square cans from this period is they tend to have three lines of text at the bottom signifying the distributor and location. This can appears to only have two lines.

Other French Mobil cans may read Mobilburette, Mobilradia, Mobilfuel, Mobiloil, MobilMixTT, Mobilcompound, Mobilmix, Mobilgel, Mobilgrease. I notice the last letter appears to be a taller letter compared to the "o" so that would cross out quite a few variations.

Though some of these phrases would not apply to usage within an aircraft, it never hurts to have extra info.

I notice it says picture was take in 1937, Australia. Australian cans would keep the same two lines for distributor/location.

Great question, something a bit different than the usual. You've got me intrigued.

Last edited by RedHat; Sat May 06 2017 10:50 PM.

Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686211
Sat May 06 2017 10:23 PM
Sat May 06 2017 10:23 PM
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Additionally, something else may compound the issue of indentification. Amelia was not necessarily your everyday hobby pilot. I doubt she was grabbing cans off the shelves of your local station. On top of this, airfields would generally have bulk/industrial products as opposed to your off the shelf products. This could be why there is a lack of Pegasus or Gargoyle on the can as they were not advertising to anyone.

Yet, there is a problem with this theory depending on the circumstances surrounding the photo. If it was a photo-op (staged) Socony-Vacuum would have taken every opportunity for the can(s) to be easily viewable with the Gargoyle or Pegasus in plain view able to be seen in any size photo. Lindbergh comes to mind, as well as many other famous vehicle-related operators, as someone subject to staged photo-ops to promote a company's product. I am pretty sure Amelia did something of this sort earlier in her career.

If this was a random photo taken, not staged, then my first theory would apply.

Just some thoughts.

Last edited by RedHat; Sat May 06 2017 11:46 PM.

Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: RedHat] #686217
Sun May 07 2017 07:20 AM
Sun May 07 2017 07:20 AM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Thank you for your reply Red Hat.
The photo was taken in Darwin, Australia, and she was either offloading items so that the plane could be fumigated as it was in numerous stops, or she was just beginning to reload those items. She did leave a few things in Darwin to be shipped back to the U.S. ( no longer deemed necessary to finish the flight and save weight). Amelia was none too shy to pose with various manufacturers products, but I believe this shot was taken by a reporter/ photographer doing his duty for his newspaper. It is interesting that other cans in the image bear images, such as the one on the ground behind Fred Noonan ( one can see a Gargoyle on that).
Out of curiosity, what would that can contain, and what does it's label read?
Back to the object in question though, it may well be she procured the can at an airport along the way (as you mentioned).
My thinking is that this photo was taken not long after arrival in Darwin, due to the fellow that is there, looking at the pair of world travelers, so that can wouldn't have been picked up in Australia, but rather in some previously visited port.
Thank you for your input.

Jerry

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686224
Sun May 07 2017 08:45 AM
Sun May 07 2017 08:45 AM
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Now that is interesting - I had not considered that she was unloading as opposed to stocking up. I thoroughly enjoy collecting cans from outside the U.S...combine that with Amelia and you have me sold, haha. There are some truly amazing collectors on this site, and some even more amazing collections. For oil can identification, you picked a perfect place.

I pose this question then:

On this specific trip, were her previous stops documented? That may help aid identification or, at the very least, narrow it down to a handful of countries. France seemed to be a popular stop for the renowned aviation enthusiasts of the time, hence my citing of some known French brand names, but other than that, I would be at the very best making a guess. Did the trip begin in the U.S.?

I must ask, too, what will identification of these cans help aid in? Are the dimensions needed to compare to and therefore obtain other measurements of items within the photo? Or is this simply a pursuit of documenting every possible aspect of the photo? Regardless of the objective, it's darn impressive what y'all are doing over there.

Last edited by RedHat; Sun May 07 2017 08:46 AM. Reason: Spelling

Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686227
Sun May 07 2017 10:31 AM
Sun May 07 2017 10:31 AM
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Additionally, I share these two photos to give you an idea of the scope of the task. Collections involving strictly Euro cans, in themselves, show the incredibly wide-ranging variation of different products put out by this company in the span of 40 or so years, abroad.

IMG_3873.jpgIMG_3874.jpg
Last edited by RedHat; Sun May 07 2017 10:33 AM.

Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: RedHat] #686229
Sun May 07 2017 11:36 AM
Sun May 07 2017 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted By RedHat
Additionally, these two photos


awesome collection .. ... cool


RANDY
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686254
Sun May 07 2017 05:28 PM
Sun May 07 2017 05:28 PM
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Very nice collection RedHat......That is exactly the reason though I stuck to US cans/items only, as my collection would take over the other half of the apartment if I collected foreign as well, lol!
Darin


Darin Sheffer
Always looking for Mobil items I don't already have!
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686267
Sun May 07 2017 07:17 PM
Sun May 07 2017 07:17 PM
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Impressive collection, well displayed. Outstanding.


Regards, Jim

I collect gas pump salt and pepper shakers
and the plastic coin banks both made by AVSCO.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: RedHat] #686274
Sun May 07 2017 07:33 PM
Sun May 07 2017 07:33 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Originally Posted By RedHat
Now that is interesting - I had not considered that she was unloading as opposed to stocking up. I thoroughly enjoy collecting cans from outside the U.S...combine that with Amelia and you have me sold, haha. There are some truly amazing collectors on this site, and some even more amazing collections. For oil can identification, you picked a perfect place.

I pose this question then:

On this specific trip, were her previous stops documented? That may help aid identification or, at the very least, narrow it down to a handful of countries. France seemed to be a popular stop for the renowned aviation enthusiasts of the time, hence my citing of some known French brand names, but other than that, I would be at the very best making a guess. Did the trip begin in the U.S.?

I must ask, too, what will identification of these cans help aid in? Are the dimensions needed to compare to and therefore obtain other measurements of items within the photo? Or is this simply a pursuit of documenting every possible aspect of the photo? Regardless of the objective, it's darn impressive what y'all are doing over there.


Thank you for all your help RedHat,...Here is a link to the entire planned trip;

tripline.net


Tons and Ton of excellent research over the past several decades, has indeed produced an impressive library, over at Tighar.
The Grease pail , may aid in determining the length of Amelia's radius arm bone. A partial skeleton was found on Gardner island by British personnel, who examined and determined the skeleton as being a Polynesian (male at that), however; modern science has made great strides and sometimes old methods, pale in comparison to the tools forensic specialists employ today. The doctor who examined the bones found in 1940 left some good measurements, and finding objects such as the grease pail for use as a tool, ( especially located right next to her arm) might be used to determine how her radius length compares to the unknown person found on Gardner ( now Nikamaroro). It may well be all of those cans were the same size..6 1/2 high, 5 1/4 wide, but in the interest of exact science, and not wanting to guess that the can she holds is a commonly used size, our search continues.
We wonder about the use of the name Mobilubricant,..was this some foreign company copying a well known product term, ..knowing they were out of reach of the copyright laws of the parent company?

Thanks again, Jerry

Impressive collection!


Last edited by Jerry Germann; Sun May 07 2017 08:37 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686333
Mon May 08 2017 11:33 AM
Mon May 08 2017 11:33 AM
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Who is the little fellow sitting on the edge of the shelf? ( outlined in diamond)


Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686342
Mon May 08 2017 01:19 PM
Mon May 08 2017 01:19 PM
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That is a Michelin Bibendum...


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Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686348
Mon May 08 2017 03:43 PM
Mon May 08 2017 03:43 PM
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That's really incredible, Jerry.

I think anyone, from any background, be it collecting, historical preservation, or otherwise, can appreciate that level of scientific study and effort that you all have put forth. It'd be amazing if our two communities could come together and aid in solving or, at the very least, bringing the case one step closer to its conclusion. This is, undoubtedly, one of the greatest American mysteries of all time.

To be honest, I had not read into her final flight(s) of the circumnavigation attempt in some time and did not realize she had made so many stops. There sure is quite a large amount of ground to cover there but, surprisingly, Mobiloil had taken ground in just about every single one of those countries/regions/continents at one time or another. Add that to the fact that, as any large corporation, their political/financial/legal pull was not really subject to borders. While I do admit that there were attempts to capitalize on the likeness of the "Gargoyle" abroad, the cans appearing in the picture are far too similar to Mobiloil products to be knock-offs. I will attach a picture of such cans that gave a go at appearing similar to the Gargoyle, while not appearing similar enough to be sued... at least not to my knowledge. I am sure most here have heard the stories of the Independent Oil Co. being brought to court by Standard Oil of Indiana and successfully (at least for all but the obscurest items) in removing the "Red Hat" from their products. Their claim being it similarly resembled the "Red Crown" logo - laughably.

I will absolutely keep looking through any information I have at my disposal - all it takes is for one of these cans to pop up somewhere on the internet, be it here or abroad, for this question to be answered. Many folk here have spent decades trying to find a can/sign/globe of their dreams, so patience is something, I believe, we are all used to.



IMG_3883.jpg
Last edited by RedHat; Mon May 08 2017 04:16 PM.

Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: RedHat] #686382
Mon May 08 2017 10:53 PM
Mon May 08 2017 10:53 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Thank you RedHat, with fellows like you searching it might not be long before something turns up.
I found a post that was dated sometime in I believe 2008, whereby someone on this forum suggested that the lack of a Pegasus or Gargoyle indicated that the can was made before 1931, and had some pictures posted, but I couldn't open them, they were expired or deleted from the thread. Do you know if that might be the case concerning a pre-merger of the two companies? ( Socony and Vacuum oil)
It may be Amelia was given a product some 6 -7 years old along the way,...I think the shelf life would probably be ok, ..it might be good to use today in fact, I don't think grease breaks down too much in a closed container.

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686383
Mon May 08 2017 11:00 PM
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It is interesting that following the accident at Luke field in Hawaii during her first attempt, that an inventory was done of the contents of the wrecked Electra, and as far as oil/grease products, two were mentioned, they being (1) 5lb can Mobile grease NO 2, (1) 10lb can Mobil grease number NO 2, and (1) 5lb can of Lubriplate. An accompanying article related that she carried a special grease aboard, to lube her propeller hubs. I don't think the NO 2 Mobile grease would fall into the special category, but how about the lubriplate,...and would Mobilubricant be an equivalent to Lubriplate?
It seems she picked up another item that was different from the list, ...whatever is in the Gargoyle can next to Fred Noonan. Have you determined what that container's label might read?

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Mon May 08 2017 11:05 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686446
Tue May 09 2017 10:19 PM
Tue May 09 2017 10:19 PM
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Come to think of it, Pang Oil may actually be affiliated to Mobiloil in some way, be it a subsidiary or something else. I lose a bit during translating here and there, but the more I read the more it makes sense. Not really important in this conversation, but a side note nonetheless.

To answer your question about old oils and greases, I have heard of people who do not like their quart cans being full (either too much weight on a shelf, heavier cans falling cause more damage, or issues with home insurance) actually using that oil in their old cars. Some of those oils were almost 100 years old! While I do not recommend it, nor would I use it in my own car, it is feasible. With that line of thought, 6-7 years is nothing. Back then, I can't say there would be any second thoughts about doing this. Grease would more or less follow the same train of thought.

As for the two cans, I am still looking around and contacting a few collectors who have insight to cans we do not have here in the states. The can behind Noonan, for whatever reason, rings a bell. I feel like I have seen a photo of one rather recently, but have yet to come across it again. If you can, I would contact the individual from the thread you came across through a PM and see if they still have the photo or info.

Now Lubriplate is a brand I have very little knowledge on. I cannot say it is a brand that has a huge following, albeit for a few cans here and there, so info may be few and far between, but I would be guessing. I would say it is comparable to a Mobilubricant in the way that any all-purpose lubricant is comparable to another. I cannot say I have too much insight into any "special" grease for propellers, but I see no reason that Lubriplate would fall into such a category. Today, if Lubriplate were a car, it would be a Camry...just really basic.


Looking for European Shell, Veedol, Standard, Vacuum, Michelin and Sinclair ephemera/cans/signage
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: RedHat] #686470
Wed May 10 2017 12:58 PM
Wed May 10 2017 12:58 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Originally Posted By RedHat
Come to think of it,


As for the two cans, I am still looking around and contacting a few collectors who have insight to cans we do not have here in the states. The can behind Noonan, for whatever reason, rings a bell. I feel like I have seen a photo of one rather recently, but have yet to come across it again. If you can, I would contact the individual from the thread you came across through a PM and see if they still have the photo or info.


Snip quote'

Thanks again RedHat,....here is that link to the old post concerning discussion about old mobilubricant cans....I can't open the images to see if the cans are round or square like we need.

http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=47448

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686750
Mon May 15 2017 08:32 AM
Mon May 15 2017 08:32 AM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Tough one to find. I find several round 5lb tins with the Mobilubricant wording on the can, but no square ones thus far.

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #686870
Mon May 15 2017 10:21 PM
Mon May 15 2017 10:21 PM
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Here is a 1 Lb grease tin

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vacuum-Oil-Co...p4AAOSwol5YybU7

note the incorporated in Australia print.....and only one side of the tin has a pegasus, is it possible that the tin we see Earhart holding is marked the same as this ebay can? Are we seeing the back of the can when we see only the product identified inside ( minus any Pegasus or Gargoyle on that side?

Last edited by Jerry Germann; Mon May 15 2017 10:24 PM.
Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #687547
Sun May 28 2017 06:01 AM
Sun May 28 2017 06:01 AM
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Bump

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #689125
Sat Jun 24 2017 01:29 PM
Sat Jun 24 2017 01:29 PM
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Still looking for more information, images, dimensions etc, concerning the Mobilubricant can discussed in this thread.

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #690963
Fri Jul 21 2017 08:42 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 08:42 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Hello again, thanks to all who have helped in this quest thus far. If anyone has or comes across a can exactly like this, please let me know.

thank you.

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #693542
Thu Aug 31 2017 01:07 PM
Thu Aug 31 2017 01:07 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Bump, Bump stumped,..can't find one like it.

Re: Mobilubricant grease pail [Re: Jerry Germann] #706031
Fri Mar 09 2018 09:48 PM
Fri Mar 09 2018 09:48 PM
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Jerry Germann Offline OP
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Bump again ...hope someone can help out with this.

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