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Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35968
Tue Feb 07 2006 11:36 AM
Tue Feb 07 2006 11:36 AM
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Clarksville, Tn. USA
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Gary Drye Offline OP
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As my January issue of Petroleum Collectibles was lost in the mail, I asked Scott Benjamin to send me another, which he did (thank you Scott). I just received it a few days ago and Repo Alert was one of the first things I read. Scott discusses the Golden West pump plates. Here is his short article.

"If anyone ever finds a known original Golden West pump plate, let me know and I'll buy a phony one. Then I'll send it to you so you can take photographs of both of them together. I can't tell you how many calls I get on these pump plates and I say the same thing. "I can't tell unless they are side by side". Of course, then anyone can tell. I've heard the blue is different from viewing the two side by side but I'm sure there are other answers. This would hopefully help sort out this ongoing question."

I bought one a couple or so years ago from a VERY reputable sign dealer. It was sold to me as "original" "NOS" ...and expensive. I know they are reproduced now in 12" versions but Petro Myth has it that either 10" or 10 1/2" were produced several years ago. I just measured mine at 10 1/4". Before I take Scott's word as "gospel" I wanted to solicit other opinions. I also find some flaws with Scott's assumption.

First, Scott is asking for an original for comparison, so he doesn't have an original to go by. Maybe he has never even seen what he considers an "original". Then he says "I've HEARD the blue..."., which sounds like hearsay to me. There just isn't enough concrete evidence here to deem all these signs as fake.

Let me present a scenerio that could have possibly happened, using a smaller regional company besides Golden West. Let's say Stoll Oil Co. ordered 100 porcelain Golen Tip pump plates for their pumps in Louisville only. By the time the signs were made and delivered to their warehouse, negotiations were underway for a buyout from Sinclair. Instead of spending labor and traveling costs to update the signage, the box of signs set there. Sinclair buys Stoll, the box gets regulated to an attic and forgotten. Forward 50 years and a collector buys out the old bulk plant, finding the box of Golden Tip signs. These NOS signs hit the market, the seller gets rich and there are 100 happy owners of a rare sign. Then one person announces that they are all fake since there are no originals to compare them to. The happy buyers are no longer happy and take a big loss on their investment.

Could this have happened with Golden West? Possibly. Now, I'm not running around whinning because I may have bought a repo. I just would like hard evidence substanuating Scott's claim. I have the highest respect for Scott B. and consider him a friend via business transactions. But...I would like to get replies/opinions from some of the other "heavy hitters" in signage. Butch Greer, John Herndon, Ray Seider, John Mancino,and any others that may share their "expertise" on this subject.And please back up your comments if you will.

This topic is started to hopefully put to rest one of the hobby's "petro myths" and is not a public calling out of anyone or is there any need for "bashing". So please refrain from any negative comments that do not contribute to this topic. Thank you all for any comments.

Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35969
Tue Feb 07 2006 01:35 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 01:35 PM
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wfort39663 Offline
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Here is a photo of my Golden West pump plate. It measures exactly 10" as was purchased about 6 years ago from a reputable
collector. It has two original gromets and some chiping around a couple of the mounting holes indicative of being mounted at one time. The back is a light gray color.





[This message has been edited by wfort39663 (edited 02-07-2006).]

[This message has been edited by wfort39663 (edited 02-07-2006).]


Bill Fortune
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35970
Tue Feb 07 2006 01:48 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 01:48 PM
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Seth Robbins Offline
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I've always been told that a big group of these were found in.....I think.....San Antonio in a bulk plant. That could be right-on or could be a fairy-tale...I don't know.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35971
Tue Feb 07 2006 02:14 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 02:14 PM
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Lodi, CA.
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I've always been afraid of these because I don't know the difference and have not been told how too. This goes way back to when we started Known Unmarked Reproductions on this site. The following link is from here. Nobody really replied to this in any way I could learn anything. Ted http://www.oldgas.com/shoptalk/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000012.html

------------------
Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
pca-west.org

[This message has been edited by troach (edited 02-07-2006).]


Ted Pam Ethyl & Polly Roach
Lodi CA.
209-210-8971
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35972
Tue Feb 07 2006 03:08 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 03:08 PM
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Collierville, Tn
roger cherry Offline
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Gary has made some real good points here and good comparisions for us to look at. Everyone needs to keep in mind that the possibility of two DIFFERENT sign makers or porcelain shops doing plates for Golden West is a real and accurate possibility. One of the makers may have done them in 10" and the other in 10 1/4 size. Remember, back in the day, they standards were broad and alot of the companies we collect were family owned. If one porcelain maker gave a better quoted price to do 100 plates than the next company alot of times the cheaper price got the business. The problem with saying the term "known original" is who determines it to be known. I still preach the fact that unless a person was there in 1948 to take the piece off the pump and have kept it all this time there is no such thing as a known original. Alot of times we are 99.9% sure and that is good enough for me, but condeming one piece just because it is not like the Jones' is not a good way to determine overall originality. There is a train of thought out there that if only a few exist, and you happen to be the one to own one of the few, and alot more pop up, it would be economically advantagous to discredit them to keep the price of yours up. Think about it. If something is supposed to be pre WWII, then a testing process can be done to see if the paint contains lead sulfate. Anything post WWII, zinc oxide will be present in the paint. I would assume the Golden West plates would be WWII or after so how do you tell?? I don't know and am no expert, just making ramblings I guess.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35973
Tue Feb 07 2006 04:41 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 04:41 PM
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Columbus, GA
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There are 2 different versions of this pump plate. MOST collectors do not know this! However the ones you see all the time have dark blue mountains and dark blue water. The rare version, there are only about 4 to 5 known have a baby blue or North Carolina blue mountain and water.

The ones that have the baby blue or North Carolina blue are definately real. And I believe that most of the ones you see on the market are real as well......

Now don't go and look at yours and say ohhh mine is a shade different I have one of the really rare ones....STOP NO YOU DON'T!

It's a VERY VERY VERY different color and there is a night and day difference.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35974
Tue Feb 07 2006 04:57 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 04:57 PM
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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If anybody is going to give an educated opinion, it's John, thanks bud!

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35975
Tue Feb 07 2006 05:21 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 05:21 PM
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Clarksville, Tn. USA
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Gary Drye Offline OP
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Here are some pics of mine. Any opinions?






Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35976
Tue Feb 07 2006 05:30 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 05:30 PM
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Gary Drye Offline OP
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Oh yea, I remeasured the sign, this time with my reading glasses on! It's between 10 and 1/16 - 1/8 inches, not 1/4. If that helps.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35977
Tue Feb 07 2006 06:58 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 06:58 PM
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Gary Drye Offline OP
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Here are some interesting tidbits I received via email from a person that chooses to remain Anonymous and I will respect his wishes. Truth or fiction, the plot thickens! LOL Here are edited/ excerps from his messages:

1. XXXXXXX has an original, I was next to him when
he bought it at auction in circa xx/xx. It has light
blue in the water not the "midnight blue" that all of
the others have. This sign had a very pale almost
white back (if memory serves me correct) It looks
totaly different, also had a couple of chips none of
the others have any flaws.

2. I don't know how many different versions have been
reprododuced, but I know for fact on one batch. They
were made in the late 70's by a few old line and
respected XXXX collectors at Southwestern Porcelain
in Sand Springs, OK. Their original intentions were
not corrupt, one had the sign and the two others
wanted it, so they made around 25 (so they say)This
was in a time when values were nominal on this stuff
and colletors were few and far between and trading was
common and it wasn't as competitive as it is today.
This repo now 20-25 years old can show some age. It
has a DARK GREY OR DARK BLUE back and is VERY heavy
and the stenciling is very definite. Water is dark
blue and grommets are brass. Unfortunately these
originally reproduced versions did find there way to
the market and spread throughout the country and w/
the exception of a select group of "oldtimers" no one
has any reason to know this story. That is all
factual, point 3. is my conjecture.

3. I have seen another version w/ a light grey back
and not has heavy as the above refrenced version. It
is my opinion that this is a later reproduction made
again at Southwestern porcelain in Sand Springs OK
(now defucnt) or possibly in Canada. I have a very
strong ASSUMPTION as to who had these made.

Another message:

Yours is the one produced in the late 1970's by SW
Porcelain in Sand Springs, OK. The tell tale sign is
the yellow paint smudge and the color of the back,
most of the ones made in the late 1970's had some
yellow smudge or smudging on the back.

I went back and read those who added to the thread:
XXXX is exactly right and did a better job of
describing than I. XXXX's is IMO a later
repro with the light grey back and I CAUTIOUSLY share
my OPINION that XXXXXXX had these (light grey back
signs) made in the late 80's-early 90's by SW
porcelain (he used them ALOT) or possibly made in
Canada. I have heard the story that XXX repeated
about the bulk plant in San Antonio, and again I
CAUTIOUSLY share my OPINION that the bulk plant story
was fabricated by XXXXXX.

I would invite you to share anything anomously that we
have discussed. There are several of these floating
around and they commonly trade for 1000-2000 and even
on a couple occasions around 3000, most guys are hung
pretty good on these and I don't want to be the
"killed messenger" telling everyone that they are not
real nor do I want dealers to dispute/argue with me.

I know who made the first ones and think they made
more like 50 rather than 25. Their intentions were
truely honest, one is a "dormant" collector, one
deceased and one is somewhat active. One of the three
began selling them in the 80's and I don't know how he
represented them but he hasn't had any in a while to
the best of my knowledge and when brought up is
totally mum, I only know the story b/c when I was
starting in my mid-late teenage years (mid xxx) I
acquired one and went to each of them for advice, they
liked me and and always took enjoyment in "helping the
kid", two shared the story and one said he didn't know
much about them only that that there were real and
repro ones and he couldn't tell the difference....but
to "be careful". There were several pieces made in
the Tulsa area in the 80's by a handfull of
individuals, can't prove anything but have been told
of few things to "stay" away from by a few of the guys
who have very solid information

One final thought, this has always bothered me about
the sign, if it's a pump sign why is there only
(guessing) 2-3 globes in existence and 75-100? signs,
NOS find or not that doesn't seem right more globes
should have survived. We are talking about a tiny
independent marketer from San Antonio w/ very small
amount of stations.

It's just logical that the 4-5 baby blue ones are the
only originals besides the fact that I know that some
were reproduced at one point.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35978
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:17 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:17 PM
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Santa Fe, NM
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wfort39663 Offline
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Very interesting. I have also wondered about the authenticity of these signs. Luckily I don't have a huge investment in the sign. If it is a repro it is one that has some value. Here is a photo of the back of mine. It is definitely different than Gary's.



[This message has been edited by wfort39663 (edited 02-07-2006).]


Bill Fortune
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35979
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:33 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:33 PM
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Collierville, Tn
roger cherry Offline
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Gary, your source needs to come out of the closet and let us know what he knows. It is real hard to believe someone when they will not say what they know. I do understand about not wanting to make everyone mad, but if it is legit info then we need to know it first hand. Everyone on this site is grown and can take it wheather or not we believe the tale. I don't think anyone is going to belittle the person for trying to help everyone if that is TRUELY what they are trying to do. Seth made a good point in another post. It went something like "Finding someone without a vested interest in the item (wheather dealer or collector) is very hard to do".

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35980
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:51 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 07:51 PM
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Santa Paula, Calif
Dick Bennett Offline
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Lets not pressure Gary to reveal the names of those that want to remain anonymous.

It IS always better to hear it from the source,than 2nd hand.
DB

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35981
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:09 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:09 PM
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Dick Bennett Offline
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Mine measures 10" even. The back is the same light color that's on the front [kindof a light light yellow, not white, w/ a glaze finish].

I don't have much in it, got it when things were cheap'r.
DB

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35982
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:17 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:17 PM
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Norman, OK
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DCpate Offline
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Interesting topic.

I've seen these signs in person and on the internet and they are always perfect.

Reminds me of those oval Gargoyle signs which pop up on Ebay all the time. Those are always perfect and I think they are definitely repops.

But a huge load of NOS Cosden 10" ethyl pump plates are also floating around and I believe those are original.

Who knows... Funny about the hidden sources though...


There's no stopping the Cretins from hopping
You've got to keep it beating for the hopping Cretins
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35983
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:29 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:29 PM
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Katy, TX 77449
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MarkMcK Offline
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Where there's smoke there's fire. Thanks Gary for bringing up the subject and I think I'll follow your lead and not use any names either. I've seen a several versions of this sign over the years including a heavy gauge painted version.

About 15 years ago a paid a vist to a dealer friend of mine that had 6 Golden West signs. He told be that he belived that one was original(which I ended up buying) but that the other 5 were repops. I asked how did he know they were repops, and he replied that he had bought them from the guy that made them. That was good enough for me. I took an good long look at the ones that were repops and have seen the same signs sell as originals on a number of occasions. They were very similar to Gary's except the backs had a smooth glossy finish. The color was dark gray with kind of a white speckeling. From the Pic,the back of Gary's pump plate appears to have a rough finish which I have never seen before. The signs had of number of other slight differences including slightly larger groments and an even white border on the repops.

Here is the a pic of one with the baby blue water and mountains from a recent Aumann Auction. Notice, no white border. These always came with a black back.

Here is the one ended up buying. It looks very similar to one of Gary's descriptions of a repop. Notice how the white border is wider on the right side than the left. A number of these signs are made like this. If you look close you can even see that the bottom and right gromet holes are off centered.

Since you don't see many Golden West itmes, I'm throwing in a book of Golden West Lube Company matches, which uses the ligher blue

Here is the back.

[

[This message has been edited by MarkMcK (edited 02-07-2006).]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35984
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:43 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 08:43 PM
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Santa Fe, NM
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wfort39663 Offline
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Mark, If you notice mine also has a wider white border on the right side than the left just like yours. Thats an unusual feature to see on more than one sign. Your back looks exactly like mine also. Bill.

[This message has been edited by wfort39663 (edited 02-07-2006).]


Bill Fortune
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35985
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:03 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:03 PM
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El Dorado Hills, CA
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Pablo Offline
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Wow! What a great thread!! The stories of the Golden West "pump" signs have been floating around for years. My feeling is that nobody knows the true story on what is "real" or fake. There are at least three versions of the sign that I have held and examined. Years ago I bought a rigid Golden West sign with a dark gray back. Not convinced that it was genuine, I sold it to a known collector for what I paid for it. He then later sold it at auction for $900. These "repops" now go for more than $2000!!

Gary's analogy of a company that buys a load of pump signs, never uses them and then they're "discovered" later is possible. Who knows? But I question the design of the sign. Take a close look. Would an oil company make a "pump" sign that doesn't reference gasoline or any other product?? Maybe. But it looks more like a "fantasy" sign to me.

In the final analysis, since there is no evidence that these signs were ever mounted on pumps and no real "experts", we can only speculate which versions are "real".

Paul

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35986
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:18 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:18 PM
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Katy, TX 77449
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MarkMcK Offline
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Pablo, I can think of a number of pump plates that don't reference gasoline or any other product including; Sky Ranger, Conoco triangles, BP, El Paso, some Republics and Atlantics, Sing, Coltex, Fina, Tenneco, Utoco, Deep Rock, Golden Eagle

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35987
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:52 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 09:52 PM
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El Dorado Hills, CA
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Pablo Offline
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Mark,
I agree there are many examples of pump signs with no reference to gasoline or a product. That's why I said "maybe" for Golden West. But then, every example sign you mentioned is KNOWN to have been mounted on a pump. That's not the case with the Golden West signs.

All I'm saying is that everything known about the Golden West signs is hearsay. I don't think anyone can produce enough evidence to convince collectors one way or the other. It will probably remain a mystery and subject to controversy in the hobby. But if collectors are willing to step up to the plate and pay two grand for the signs, who cares??

Paul

[This message has been edited by Pablo (edited 02-07-2006).]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35988
Tue Feb 07 2006 10:02 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 10:02 PM
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Seth Robbins Offline
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Here's another twist to the story....all porcelain manufacturer's are notorious about having rejects or seconds that that they "throw away". They also do accidental or not so accidental over-runs and if the person who commissioned them doesn't want them, they may "throw them away" or give them to their employees. The reason I am adding the quotes to throw them away is this....about 5-7 years ago before Southwest Porcelain went out of business, we had some limited edition 24" Conoco & Marland triangles made FOR Conoco in Ponca City. We rejected several for the border being mis-aligned. I still to this day, see those rejects pop up on ebay or at a swap meet. They also made an extra 50-100 in anticipation of us buying them also but the deal with Conoco never panned out, so they had to eat those as well. Now, here's where this whole deal can go 'Twilight Zone' on us. What if the whole scenario I just described above took place 70 years ago? Or what if it took place 20 years ago? What if, the original manufacturer of the original plate, had a hard time matching the blues, so they had several rejects that their employees "threw out"? What if they made 100 extra in anticipation of Golden West ordering them, we all know it's easier just to keep making them when you are all tooled up and running rather than re-tool later.

The one thing I do know, is that when Southwest went under, they had a BIG auction. They were pulling out signs that you had no idea if they made them yesterday or 50 years ago. They had made signs for a lot of oil companies and a lot for Coke, I must say it was very confusing because I knew they had also made a lot of stuff in modern times for collectors and dealers.

Bottom line is this....even if they original guy who had the first 25 made were to come out and say definitively what he had made and what they looked like, there is no way to know when the other variations were made and by whom. My answer would be this, if you think your's is real, then enjoy it as such because it more than likely is. I know that sounds pie-in-the-sky, but why crush peoples' hope when you don't have anything concrete to go by?

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35989
Tue Feb 07 2006 10:02 PM
Tue Feb 07 2006 10:02 PM
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wfort39663 Offline
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A Golden West globe with the same logo as the pump sign exists. It most likely would have gone on a pump and it does not use the word gasoline. A real mystery!!!!


Bill Fortune
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35990
Wed Feb 08 2006 07:20 AM
Wed Feb 08 2006 07:20 AM
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Riley, MI, USA
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In My Opinion The ONLY plates that I would believe to be 'real' would be those with the light blue mountains.

There is no plausable reason that any company would accept pump plates with a blue that was so radically different from their globe lens color. Especially when all other examples of their marketing features the light blue.

And having actually held an original Golden West globe in my hands, I can tell you that the blue is extremely light - not like the repro pump plates and lenses available in the restoration market.

If you look at the examples shown in this posting, you can see the major difference batween the light blue and dark blue examples is the thickness of the white/snow areas in the mountains. IMO that's just sloppy reproduction artwork at play.

If I was in the market to purchase an ORIGINAL Golden West pump plate, I'd only spend my money on one of the lighter blue examples.

Later . . .

Jim




------------------
www.T-waysGraphics.com

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35991
Wed Feb 08 2006 07:48 AM
Wed Feb 08 2006 07:48 AM
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derry n h
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derry n h
thank god i collect texaco///////////
but i think you need to find more stuff like the match book to make a conculsion
there must be some histoical pictures in the library and get lucky showing a station
with a pump john knows his stuff i think im leaning to the light blue ps the texaco black no smoking people said there were some repops but who has a repop

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35992
Wed Feb 08 2006 11:30 AM
Wed Feb 08 2006 11:30 AM
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Clarksville, Tn. USA
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Gary Drye Offline OP
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Clarksville, Tn. USA
I want to thank everyone that responded on this topic. I have learned a thing or two about this sign. Unfortunately, it appears this sign as a "petro myth" will continue as there was no clear cut answer. Everyone will have to make up their own mind on these signs. I have made mine up, so.....

Without mentioning any names, if the seller of this sign to me believes it is authenic, please contact me. Now, I do NOT think you are obligated to do this, nor will I get mad. I do NOT hold you repsonsible IF it is a repo. I believe it was sold under good intentions from you. If I do not hear from you, so be it. I consider you a friend and that status WILL continue and I WILL purchase from you in the future again. Thank you and thanks to everyone else.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35993
Wed Feb 08 2006 12:24 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 12:24 PM
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Posts: 3
Northern Minnesota
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goldsealoil Offline
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Northern Minnesota
I gave a phone call to a friend of mine whose been around the hobby for a long time and who most in the hobby know. This was his information on the fabled Golden West Pump Plate. Around 1990-1991 a well known dealer by the name of Dave Justice had a "find" of these pump plates. He was selling these at a lot of swap meets in the southeast and midwest. At the same time a dealer out in California also had a find and was selling them on the West Coast. It seems these two were in partnership. When collectors started comparing notes the West Coast dealer seemed plausible due to his location, but Dave Justice finding these plates in a bulk plant in Florida seemed to raise some suspicion but no one doubted him because he seemed like a sincere, friendly young man. Of course a couple years later the entire hobby found out how reputable he really was. Golden West was Mr. Justices first foray into the world of reproduction signage, but few noted it. Only a few astute collectors knew enough to stay away.
Our friend says there's less than a handful of originals.
-Mike

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35994
Wed Feb 08 2006 12:59 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 12:59 PM
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Posts: 1,377
Santa Fe, NM
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wfort39663 Offline
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Neither one of those supposed finds would seem to be logical as the Golden West Oil Company was out of San Antonio, Texas.


Bill Fortune
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35995
Wed Feb 08 2006 03:28 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 03:28 PM
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Posts: 104
St. Louis Mo.
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John H Offline
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Posts: 104
St. Louis Mo.
AAHHH my theory is that since the company was from San Antonio area the secret stash was found in the basement of the Alamo next to Pee Wee Hermans bike!

Sorry Had to do it.
Great thread till I messed it up.
John

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35996
Wed Feb 08 2006 04:31 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 04:31 PM
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Posts: 83
Katy, TX 77449
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MarkMcK Offline
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Katy, TX 77449
Goldsealoil, Dave actually published a booklet on reproductions in 1993. Just for grins, I thought I would share what he wrote.

On the originals, he said blue was either baby blue or cobalt blue and was a silkscreened sign. On the repro's he says some repros were also silkscreenend and that the thinner variants that contained the Dark Navy Blue were questionable. He also mentioned that some of the repros had ground backs.

Interesting, I've never seen one with true cobalt blue, has anyone else. As to ones with ground backs, it kinda sounds like a Andy Rooney to me.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35997
Wed Feb 08 2006 06:52 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 06:52 PM
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Posts: 485
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Pablo Offline
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El Dorado Hills, CA
There's been a lot of great commentary on this thread. I've been hearing about "known originals", stories about bulk plant finds in San Antonio, theories about the repops, "baby blue" colors, colors of the backs, etc, etc. Based upon the signs I have examined, what I've heard over the years from collectors and dealers and now in this thread, there appears to be no definitive conclusion.

It seems a majority of collectors believe that the "baby blue" Golden West signs are genuine. But these are also the rarest of the known signs (some say 4 ot 5 known?). Let's logically examine the evidence. As far as I know, there is no evidence that Golden West ever mounted a sign on a pump or truck. There are no station photos or anecdotal evidence. If collectors believe that most of the existing signs are repops and the "baby blue" signs are genuine, then one might assume these signs were likely a company experiment that didn't fly. If you believe that the company ordered pump plates, then went out of business, there wouldn't be just 4 or 5. I'm just trying to get collectors to think logically about the possibilities rather than rely on hearsay, much of which is questionable.

Myself, I like all of the Golden West signs, repop or not. But I'll never buy another one unless it's dirt cheap!!

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35998
Wed Feb 08 2006 10:09 PM
Wed Feb 08 2006 10:09 PM
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Posts: 3,352
Kelowna British Columbia Canad...
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dodogas Offline
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If there are only 4 or 5 known, then it sounds like they could be samples.

Now if that is the case I am wondering if they perhaps did a batch of samples with the darker blue?..say maybe the light blue was not accepted??

Also as far as blank size these were the days before plasma and laser cutters and they were likely punched. This makes me think there is a slight chance of a size close to what they wanted being used (due to inventory at hand) rather than make new blanks for a trial run.

Just a few thoughts for what it is worth.

If you have chipped one look carefully at the edge it should show evidence of being punched if it is 25 years old or more. If it looks plasma cut, take off running!!..

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #35999
Thu Feb 09 2006 05:44 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 05:44 PM
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Posts: 462
Clarkesville, GA
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archimedes Offline
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Clarkesville, GA
Just look what showed up on feebay....looks like somebody was reading this thread.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Golden-West-Porcelai...1QQcmdZViewItem

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36000
Thu Feb 09 2006 05:53 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 05:53 PM
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Posts: 2,753
Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
st.rod Offline
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st.rod  Offline
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Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
Member here!

Hi, I'm Greg Greenberg also known as bustermonty on ebay. Buster and Monty are my 2 labs who inspired my screen name. I bought
my first sign in Sept 02 when I went to get a Buick sign to go with my Buick GS. I now have almost 250 signs and no GS. Always looking for unique and graphic signs


In memory of DB 9/12/49 - 8/28/14
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36001
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:11 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:11 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,483
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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bustermonty  Offline
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Indianapolis IN USA
Why would you want to keep it. Your first loss is your best loss

Edit to remove objectionable word

[This message has been edited by Oldgas (edited 02-09-2006).]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36002
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:21 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:21 PM
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Posts: 1,095
Collierville, Tn
roger cherry Offline
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roger cherry  Offline
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Collierville, Tn
Would the REAL Bustermonty please step forward! Am I missing something here? Which one of yall is Bustermonty on ebay?

Edit to remove reference to another post's objectionable word

[This message has been edited by Oldgas (edited 02-09-2006).]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36003
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:24 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:24 PM
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Posts: 2,753
Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
st.rod Offline
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Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
Sorry for the confusion. I posted. Member Here. Meaning that he is a member here. Larry


In memory of DB 9/12/49 - 8/28/14
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36004
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:26 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 06:26 PM
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Posts: 1,483
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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bustermonty  Offline
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Indianapolis IN USA
Don't take it personaly.
If you want to call 800 862 6912 I'll be glad to stand up.

[This message has been edited by Oldgas (edited 02-09-2006).]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36005
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:19 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:19 PM
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Posts: 1,095
Collierville, Tn
roger cherry Offline
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roger cherry  Offline
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Collierville, Tn
Dumb ole hillbilly here from Tennessee. Still confused. Is st.rod from Colorodo bustermonty on ebay or is bustermonty here also bustermonty on ebay?

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36006
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:33 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:33 PM
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Posts: 2,753
Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
st.rod Offline
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st.rod  Offline
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Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
Thats okay Hill Billy. I'm st.rod (Larry) Bustermonte is bustermonte (Greg) It don't men nuttin' any who


In memory of DB 9/12/49 - 8/28/14
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36007
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:35 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:35 PM
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Posts: 750
Longmont, CO
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RARIN TO GO Offline
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Posts: 750
Longmont, CO
st.rod is Larry from Colorado. Bustermonty is Bustermonty from ebay and here but not really because Buster and Monty are 2 labs and that leaves this guy Greg Greenburg. I think thats our guy. The one with the sign. Really.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36008
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:44 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:44 PM
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Posts: 2,753
Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
st.rod Offline
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Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
Thanks Rarin' to Go! I was startin' to get confused myself. LMFAO Larry


In memory of DB 9/12/49 - 8/28/14
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36009
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:49 PM
Thu Feb 09 2006 07:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,483
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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Indianapolis IN USA
Hi, This is the real bustermonty on this sight and ebay or Greg. Not bustermonte that is someone else on ebay. Just trying to keep it straight.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36010
Fri Feb 10 2006 07:11 AM
Fri Feb 10 2006 07:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,095
Collierville, Tn
roger cherry Offline
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roger cherry  Offline
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Collierville, Tn
Thanks guys it is clear as mud now. LOL. Have a good one and good luck on the plate.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? #36011
Sat Feb 25 2006 10:38 AM
Sat Feb 25 2006 10:38 AM
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Posts: 485
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Pablo Offline
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El Dorado Hills, CA
Yes, I bought Bustermonty's Golden West sign on eBay. And yes, it has a gray back. And no, I don't care because collectors are still buying the signs regardless of the variety of colors and backs. Still, nobody knows for sure whether all, some or none of the Golden West signs are REAL!!

I bring this up again because Aumann Auction's has another Golden West sign in the March 3 Peotone Auction (item #103). Now, Aumann's has sold at least five Golden West signs in the last three years for prices ranging from $990 to $2,750. Only one of these signs was the “baby blue” version. Aumann’s has never qualified any of these signs with a comment like “age unknown”, “possible reproduction”, etc. As experienced auctioneers, it's a normal fiduciary responsibility to warn bidders if there is any doubt about authenticity. Since they haven’t qualified any of these Golden West sign auctions to date, that must mean that no “expert” in the hobby has been able to determine with any conviction which of these signs may be reproductions.

Keep in mind, this controversy on the signs has been around a long time. I acquired a Golden West sign when I first started collecting ten years ago and immediately heard all the “expert” opinions about the repops. However, the signs continue to sell for higher and higher prices at auctions. At the same time, experienced and “deep pocket” collectors have been aware of the controversy and the “opinions”. The conclusion must be that collectors just don’t care!! All the signs are well done with great graphics and heavy porcelain. Even if you accept that some of the signs may be repops, someone mentioned maybe 25 – 50 were made? That still makes any of the signs “rare” indeed.

Finally, if any collector out there has a 10 inch Golden West sign they don’t trust and want to unload, I’ll buy it for $500. And that’s a standing offer.

That’s my 2c.

Paul

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? [Re: Gary Drye] #724611
Sun Feb 10 2019 06:14 PM
Sun Feb 10 2019 06:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 12
TX - Texas
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Dale H Offline
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Dale H  Offline
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TX - Texas
Recently found this light blue version. Back is yellow.

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KIovHOeh9WTaEeZKsyDH2I-X22k2Os5z/view?usp=drivesdk[/img]

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? [Re: Gary Drye] #725068
Sun Feb 17 2019 11:45 PM
Sun Feb 17 2019 11:45 PM
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Posts: 12
TX - Texas
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Dale H Offline
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Dale H  Offline
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TX - Texas
I ended up getting this one.

s-l400 (1).jpgs-l400 (6).jpg
Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? [Re: Gary Drye] #725075
Mon Feb 18 2019 05:31 AM
Mon Feb 18 2019 05:31 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,483
Indianapolis IN USA
bustermonty Offline
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bustermonty  Offline
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Indianapolis IN USA
Fun looking back at this old post. Buster and Monty are long gone but I keep the name in memory now.

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? [Re: Gary Drye] #725107
Mon Feb 18 2019 05:18 PM
Mon Feb 18 2019 05:18 PM
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Posts: 215
UT
Wasatch Man Offline
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Wasatch Man  Offline
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Posts: 215
UT
I just have one question is there an original picture out there as in vintage 1950s gas station with these signs on the pumps ? I would love to see it .

Re: Golden West Pump Plate...Myth? [Re: Gary Drye] #725110
Mon Feb 18 2019 06:56 PM
Mon Feb 18 2019 06:56 PM
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Posts: 12
TX - Texas
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Dale H Offline
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Dale H  Offline
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TX - Texas
I haven't seen one. I think most believe there isn't one.

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