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#221878 - Tue Dec 28 2010 07:58 PM Texaco Marine sign question
hotcidr Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 27 2001
Loc: Carpinteria, Ca. USA
What's opinion on this sign on ebay...330512281558? It looks like the reproduction copies of this sign from 10 years ago and the back looks like the south american signs

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#221897 - Tue Dec 28 2010 08:55 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: hotcidr]
Dale Stephens Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 18 2009
Loc: Alabama, USA
That one is real, or at least from what I have been told, it is. You can read the name and the numbers on the boats on this one and on the repros, you can't. The other one listed is repro as is stated. This is my opinion....Dale
_________________________
Wanted: Champion Spark plug, Shell, Pennzoil, Kendall, and Woco Pep signs...Dale Stephens

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#221935 - Tue Dec 28 2010 10:56 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Dale Stephens]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
_________________________
RANDY

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#221943 - Tue Dec 28 2010 11:40 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: advertologist]
minuteman Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Apr 05 2003
Loc: Big Sky Country
In my opinion they are both reproductions....mm
_________________________
Wanted early tin litho signage.
petro, farm, auto, etc.

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#221953 - Wed Dec 29 2010 05:29 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: minuteman]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
I'd run, I remember when these first showed up, exact copy right down to the date. A graphic artist was trying to sell one at Hershey and got caught. The originals will be tainted forever because of those. So much for dating repros!
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#221957 - Wed Dec 29 2010 06:42 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: hotcidr]
Gary Drye Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Oct 13 2000
Loc: Clarksville, Tn. USA
Looks good to me, however, before I shelled out that kind of money, I'd want to hold it in my hands. Also, were not the earliest repos dated 1947 where this one is 1957?

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#221970 - Wed Dec 29 2010 08:28 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Gary Drye]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
I had my doubts back in November... Never seen or owned one dated 1957, 1959. I'm not saying real or repo either way, but I do find it very odd to have a dozen cans downstairs (Green with the outboard motor on them) dated 1957, 59, and 61. I have owned three racks with the motor on them, either dated 1959 or 61 on the back fold of the metal. I find it hard to believe that Texaco was using the boats/seagulls as late as 1957 or 59 for that matter ? But you never know. The best way I have found to date in from bouchures (SP) or newspaper ads, they do not lie

The lastest I can find on the Boats/Seagull cans is 1954 & 1955 out of some 30 odd cans. Personally I have seen this original sign dated as late as 1956. I've also seen double sided dated 1947 as Gary stated.

Matthewsauctions.com Past Auctions Estate Auction of Joe Srholez 11/6/10 in Raymond Il. I see what appears to be two different signs, one in the photo gallery the other Lot 69 which is dated 1959 and sold for $5750.00

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=32164

I would go with Gary on this also and like to hold one of these signs personally in my hands and look at the grommets and porcelain on the backside. One other note with all my ramblings this morning. I've seen these (originals) not dated, dated in the lower right hand corner and dated in the very beginning of the white field on the left hand side.

Doug

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#221994 - Wed Dec 29 2010 11:53 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
chrisbowers Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Nov 22 2004
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Back looks odd, looks like a very new piece of bare metal. Most original porcelain signs I've seen had white/black porcelain backs. And it doesn't look like it has much shelving. I'm not an expert, but I'd say fake. You used to be able to tell the repops easily, as not all the detail was there (Suzanne for example), but now you have exact copys floating around frown.


Edited by chrisbowers (Wed Dec 29 2010 11:54 AM)

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#222017 - Wed Dec 29 2010 02:18 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: chrisbowers]
D Phillips Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Dec 26 2010
Loc: Tulsa, Ok
This is why I buy rusty aged signs. I am no expert, but I like to think I have an "eye" I think they look repo. Good Repos. Why would someone pay $800 for the repo in the link above???


Edited by D Phillips (Wed Dec 29 2010 02:18 PM)

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#222058 - Wed Dec 29 2010 04:04 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: D Phillips]
chrisbowers Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Mon Nov 22 2004
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Well be careful, there are plenty of rusty aged signs that are as fake as a $4 bill. Pretty much anything on eBay coming from Argentina is going to be a rusty fake that looks pretty good to the casual observer. Actually, they've repopped a few signs I wouldn't mind having a repop of for my own use, for a repop price of course! The ones with the really rusty bare metal backs are usually a tipoff, that's what concerns me about this Marine sign that has a nice clean metal back that looks like a piece of sheetmetal I just got from my local welding supply shop.

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#222074 - Wed Dec 29 2010 05:25 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: chrisbowers]
hotcidr Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 27 2001
Loc: Carpinteria, Ca. USA
does anyone have an original one of these that is willing to take a look at the back for me and let me know your thoughts? thanks for all the comments
Ray

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#222212 - Thu Dec 30 2010 02:18 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: hotcidr]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
This is the Texaco Marine Lubricants sign that was in Matthews auction dated '59. Texaco signage from '59 forward had a R with a circle around it for the trade mark. This one has the Reg TM..IMO for that reason this sign isn't authentic


Attachments
texmarlubsign.jpg


_________________________
RANDY

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#222493 - Fri Dec 31 2010 01:17 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: advertologist]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Advertologist:

I understand where you are coming from because in 1959 The Texas Company became TEXACO INC. For the newbies out there though, 1959 Sky Chief pump plates had neither trade mark, at least I've never seen one that had one. I have though Fire Chief plates dated up to 1960 with REG.T.M. I think those were mistakes as the manufacture wasn't aware of the change ???

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#222541 - Fri Dec 31 2010 04:39 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
pumpingethyl Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Nov 30 2008
Loc: Downey , CA
Signofthepast has this one up for auction. Ends tommorrow. http://www.signofthepast.com/offer/details/Texaco_Marine_Lubricants-22
_________________________
Dennis Leith / Always looking for unusual Gilmore Oil Company items and Automobilia Displays

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#222552 - Fri Dec 31 2010 05:43 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: pumpingethyl]
Dale Stephens Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 18 2009
Loc: Alabama, USA
After looking back at the sign in question, I noticed that the white border around the green T doesn't look right. I hadn't noticed that when I posted before. I only looked for the name and numbers like I was told years ago to look for. I had one of the repros about 8-10 years ago and you certainly couldn't read the name or numbers on it. Wasn't aware that repros were being made that you could.

I've always wanted a real one, but now I'm afraid to buy one without holding it, also. I think this one does look suspicious.

The one that Dennis posted the link for, looks as though there is no manufacturing date on it. Could be my eyesight. LOL. It's not what it used to be...Dale
_________________________
Wanted: Champion Spark plug, Shell, Pennzoil, Kendall, and Woco Pep signs...Dale Stephens

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#222556 - Fri Dec 31 2010 06:24 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Dale Stephens]
minuteman Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Apr 05 2003
Loc: Big Sky Country
I agree with Advertologist that the last one sold in Mattews auction was NOT an original...The sign that Signofthepast has up for sale is original imo....
IMO the ONLY Texaco Marine or Texaco Motor Oil signs with the boats and seagulls,etc. that are originals have an ink date stamp on the left side of the sign...
The marine signs have been reproduced probably 5 times in the last 20 years and each one tries to be perfect from changing the dates to fixing the script on the boat but they seem to miss something each time...anyways there are far too many signs out there compared to the tiny bit of advertising to be found....i asked earlier if anyone has even a picture of a marine sign in use on a building or can rack and no response...there are thousands of photo's of old texaco stations and not ONE with a marine sign in one...guess that shows the ACTUAL rareity of the sign....mm
_________________________
Wanted early tin litho signage.
petro, farm, auto, etc.

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#222569 - Fri Dec 31 2010 06:51 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: minuteman]
Dale Stephens Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sun Jan 18 2009
Loc: Alabama, USA
Originally Posted By: minuteman
..there are thousands of photo's of old texaco stations and not ONE with a marine sign in one...guess that shows the ACTUAL rareity of the sign....mm



Wouldn't the Marine signs, just mostly, have been used in or near the marinas? Maybe just a small amount been used at service stations? Just asking, don't really know...
_________________________
Wanted: Champion Spark plug, Shell, Pennzoil, Kendall, and Woco Pep signs...Dale Stephens

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#222577 - Fri Dec 31 2010 07:15 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Dale Stephens]
K W FRITH Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Devils Lake, ND---USA
Why wouldn't one have been used in a service station to promote and sell marine products to the general motoring public? Seems to me that a lot of individuals probably owned boats and would benefit from using those products???
_________________________
Everything Cities Service
Specializing in old Gas Pumps
kwfrith@gondtc.com
Cell#-701-739-6133

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#222630 - Fri Dec 31 2010 10:27 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: K W FRITH]
Dick Bennett Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Wed Oct 25 2000
Loc: Santa Paula, Calif
Of the many other companies that sold Marine/Outboard oil, how many of you have seen a picture displaying the cans or advertising?

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#222709 - Sat Jan 01 2011 01:36 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Dick Bennett]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Kevin

Because Texaco was cheap especially with Independent Stations. (Giving out advertising pieces to the owners). I'm assumimg porcelain signs single and double sided were not cheap in their day ? I'm also assuming that Marine products was a very small portion of their business. Yes, big Marinas did land them gas and oil business. Those also were the ones that had the 2' X 8' signs outside them that came with white & blackT's. You can find dozens of the signs in photographs. My father usually had a case at best of outboard moto oil in the back room. His good customers would just ask for it, on weekend trips to the lake or they would mix/fill at the pumps with their old outboards tanks. Owners did not have room for marine racks plain and simple. Cigarette, pop, and candy machines feed that owners family. If a owner had the room for a oil rack you can bet it was full of 20 weight.... I'd also bet that most marine signs and racks were at marinas inside the buildings. That is why we can't find photos of them. I've been searching 12 years for them and other Texaco photos. I have found one photograph with a 8" X 12" Marine Ships Wheel Pump Plate...

It should be noted by any serious Texaco collector, that these signs also came with BlackT's both on painted metal and porcelain...

On another note, Has anyone EVER seen a Texaco Upper Cylinder Lubricant display rack from the early 30's, the ones that held the bottles ?

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#222715 - Sat Jan 01 2011 01:51 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Maybe just maybe the reason these crooks miss something on a reproduction could be the difference between jail and prison time. "But Judge look, "It's not the same sign"

They do this and all (better not say all) reproduction signs on purpose that way............ From Coke to Ford, do you guys all honestly think in todays age, someone can't copy the correct font to use ?

All these years on oldgas for me and no one has ever mentioned that !

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#222783 - Sat Jan 01 2011 06:14 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
Alex Offline
Moderator, Value Forum

Registered: Mon Dec 08 2003
Loc: Butte, Montana USA
Blacktee: Long story short. I did see apicture of an old texaco station in Montana that had a Marine sign and oilrack. It was near a lake, not on it...The guy who owned it was in his late 80s when I met him and he had several marine signs (still in original shipping carton) amd had some marine rack signs in the shop. I was never ale to convince him to sell me any and he died a few years later. When I got up to that area later, the shop and house ahd been torn down. Couldn't track down any relatives. Good to see you posting again Doug.
_________________________
Alex
Looking for Texaco and Power Gasoline items

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#222800 - Sat Jan 01 2011 07:06 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Alex]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
Is there anybody on here that owns one of these
(an original) so we can see what the back looks like?
THANK YOU & HAPPY NEW YEAR
_________________________
RANDY

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#222856 - Sat Jan 01 2011 11:32 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: advertologist]
minuteman Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Apr 05 2003
Loc: Big Sky Country
will post pic's in a day or 2...
_________________________
Wanted early tin litho signage.
petro, farm, auto, etc.

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#222864 - Sun Jan 02 2011 04:18 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: minuteman]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
KZ1000

How long ago was this when someone actually copied a whiteT and not a blackT ?

Thanks

Why aren't we all over the blackT reproduction on this thread ? $795.00 (another child needs college). No date, shows a photo of the back, just because he mentions it's new does nothing for the next guy. Oh that's right he's a member here !!! I feel the boot present. : )

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#222865 - Sun Jan 02 2011 06:18 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
KZ1000 Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sun Oct 21 2007
Loc: Mass
[quote=blacktee]KZ1000

How long ago was this when someone actually copied a whiteT and not a blackT ?

quote]

I do not not recall white/black T, it was several years ago. My comment was meant to be another jab at how repros have ruined this hobby. This post is a Great example.
_________________________
"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"

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#222867 - Sun Jan 02 2011 06:32 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Really makes me glad I stopped collecting. Here's your exact same sign. Only this time the seller forgets to mention touch ups in the field? Maybe I'm just full of myself ? : )

Signofthepast.com

http://www.signofthepast.com/offer/details/Texaco_Marine_Lubricants-22



Aummans Auctions Runyan Auction 4/30/05-5/1/05 Lot 33 sold for $1500.00 Description states several touch ups in the field.

http://www.aumannauctions.org/cgi-bin/mnarcsearch.cgi

http://www.aumannauctions.org/cgi-bin/mnarcview.cgi?aumann/20050430

Cheers

Lets try this again ?

http://www.aumannauctions.org/cgi-bin/mnarclist.cgi?aumann/20050430/category/ALL Lot 33


Edited by blacktee (Sun Jan 02 2011 08:12 AM)

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#222879 - Sun Jan 02 2011 08:58 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
roadrelics Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Dec 21 2002
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota ...USA
blacktee------thanks for the heads up on the texaco sign...i bid on it & i now see the truth.....this seller has a problem...
_________________________



www.roadrelics.com


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#222882 - Sun Jan 02 2011 09:02 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
oillease55 Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Sat Jul 06 2002
Loc: greenville,ohio
Totally agree KZ , keep jabbin. Good to hear from you again Blacktee. Your expertise on texaco is something I value because I'm not sure about these signs either. Maybe if we keep this thread going we can all learn something. these signs have been a problem for some time now. keep it civil ;;;;;;;;;;;Ron

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#222907 - Sun Jan 02 2011 10:58 AM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: oillease55]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Darryl

I'm not pointing any fingers, I'm showing you that this sign was sold 5 years ago. That Aumann's stated that it had touch ups in the field? Kinda hard to think they'd put that in there if they weren't ???

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#222940 - Sun Jan 02 2011 12:28 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
It sounds to me (IMO) that somebody knows something and there trying to get there money back....

Hey Randy,,, I keep alot of pictures of sales on Ebay, I compared this sign with the one I have in my computer and it's the same sign that sold on Ebay for $4000 , not sure when it was though..
_________________________
RANDY

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#223008 - Sun Jan 02 2011 03:23 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
I see item received NO bids..Thanks for all input on item
on some items any decent offer should be considered..especially the generous ones?
email received from owner of the sign below:
He guarantee's authenticity...(IMO) hoping who ever gets it would keep it..it is a pretty sign..
Hello Randy, I have not heard anyone question if this is original or not. Most people are making me offers, very generous offers, but I will let the auction continue as scheduled. One person said he talked to Matthews on this to get an idea what to bid and still no questions about if it is original or not. I would have to say it is original because ebay people are not afraid to say what they think. As far as controversy, what do you mean? About price or authenticity? Are you an expert? How long after you receive it will you give me your opinion if you win? I can see refunding auction price but not shipping or return shipping costs. Thanks, Dave
_________________________
RANDY

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#223031 - Sun Jan 02 2011 04:47 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: hotcidr]
Old Iron Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Thu Sep 10 2009
Loc: New Mexico
I guess I look at in another way.That sign,and several other very desireable signs,has been on my "not interested in"list for a long time.

I'm not willing to pay that much for a sign that I have to defend by saying things like,"read the date","look at the back","look at the gromments" or "compare the colors" and so on.

I have and will put more money with it and change a display to get something that has not been popped.At least not yet.With that said,I plan to use repop globes on the pumps that will be in an outdoor setting.JMO.

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#223108 - Sun Jan 02 2011 09:27 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: Old Iron]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Randy

I find it interesting that you can write the seller and get a reply. But when I ask if the sign has any touch ups, no reply ?

I guess he just missed it.

I don't understand what the fuss is about this sign any way. There's a member here who says it's original.

IMO the ONLY Texaco Marine or Texaco Motor Oil signs with the boats and seagulls,etc. that are originals have an ink date stamp on the left side of the sign...

Doug

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#223124 - Sun Jan 02 2011 10:32 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
minuteman Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Sat Apr 05 2003
Loc: Big Sky Country
Yep that would be me...and if anyone out there has a marine or motor oil sign with a dated ink stamp on the left that they fear might not be original or want to sell, just pm me with a price and picture please....i saw this above mentioned sign at IOWA GAS where it sold this last summer and it is original imo....

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=1602&aid=29493&lid=8166404#topoflot

the sign has sold a few times over the years nothing wrong with that...( in fact if nothing else it confirms the rareity of the sign) and as far as touch ups, thats not got nothing to do with verifying authenticity...mm
_________________________
Wanted early tin litho signage.
petro, farm, auto, etc.

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#223127 - Sun Jan 02 2011 10:49 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: minuteman]
advertologist Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Sep 07 2007
Loc: So. Ca.
1) For price & being authentic
vs
2) the 4k one on ebay?
(there is no comparison)
_________________________
RANDY

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#223656 - Wed Jan 05 2011 02:37 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: chrisbowers]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Photograph of TEXACO MARINE LUBRICANTS SIGN found in Texaco "Make Knots" A 63 page brochure dated 5-35, shows all kinds of colored photographs of green cans in the beginning, then on to boating. On the last page comes a big display, which looks like inside a Marine Hardware Store. All the Texaco items are colored in. Several Texaco Curved Letters 1 gallon cans, grease tubes and even a 5 gal "Old Logo" can. I see above the display, a big old beautiful Porcelain BlackT "TEXACO MARINE LUBRICANTS" sign hanging from two chains. Not close enought to see if it's dated on the left hand side though, but I'm fairly certain it isn't. Again LMAO



Edited by blacktee (Wed Jan 05 2011 03:06 PM)

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#223694 - Wed Jan 05 2011 06:36 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
blacktee Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Mon Jan 17 2005
Loc: Saline, Mi USA
Oops, my idea of a scan. LOL



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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#232837 - Fri Feb 11 2011 01:18 PM Re: Texaco Marine sign question [Re: blacktee]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...then: Snipe Hardware

now: snipe software...

...neat photo!
_________________________
Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...

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