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Re: Selling off a collection.
#21992 Tue Apr 29 2008 12:12 PM
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Seth, I was by no means bashing auctions, I was also not suggesting he sell piece by piece. There are Buyers out there that would pay a premium to get an "Instant Collection" He would get cash, No fees, no Tax issues, Auctions do bring surprising prices for certain items, but the majority of items in a standard collection will not bring nearly what they are worth.


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Re: Selling off a collection.
#21993 Tue Apr 29 2008 12:24 PM
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Oh yeah...that's the magic of an auction, some stuff gets killed, other stuff goes way too high. I wouldn't say the "majority" won't bring what it's worth, but there are items that will go for below-bargain-basement prices. In the end, it's one day and one check and that appeals to some. But obviously, if you have the time & patience to sell off a piece at a time, that's your ticket. I will say the lowest & the highest end items seem to do really well at most auctions. It's the 300-$500 items that seem to suffer.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#21994 Tue Apr 29 2008 01:10 PM
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Seth, I have never met you, I have been around this stuff all my life. I have sold on Ebay for 10 years....I go to auctions and flea markets and have bought and sold at both, I think Ebay is a good thing, their fees time it's all said and done plus PayPal = 10% to get your money for most buyers... If you charge 10% to do all the work, when the sale is done the guy gets a check I think is a bargin. It doesn't matter who sells the stuff, there is at least a 10% cost for expenses and nobody gets top dollar for everything...I have never sold my stuff at auction because I have fun selling it myself,,, it's everyone's choice,,, But I still say, if you charge 10% for the whole deal it's a bargin..I didn't know auctioneers worked that cheap....


Wes.......
Re: Selling off a collection.
#21995 Tue Apr 29 2008 02:25 PM
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In a given year the total proceeds of my consignments have never exceeded $5000. Normally my purchases have offset my proceeds. Therefore I have never had to deal with the tax bite.

So, I'll restate my original question. What are the tax liabilities on a substantial consignment? (for example $138,000)


Collect small Oklahoma Oil Co.'s 1920's-1940's. Barnsdall, Cushing, Eason, Marland, etc.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#21996 Tue Apr 29 2008 04:28 PM
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if one can find a reputable auction house outlet that will do it all for only 10%... take their offer .. its a good... no a great deal!

do the math! with everything figured in... you cant begin to sell a collection for any less, no matter how you do it ..

any auction outfit around here wants a minimum of 20% or more and many are up to 25-30% and then some also charge a discusting 10-15% buyers premium!

Re: Selling off a collection.
#21997 Tue Apr 29 2008 06:09 PM
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Jim...the tax liabilities on $138,000 depend on many factors all of which are up to the discretion, record-keeping, honesty, etc of the seller.

For example, let's say you had bought all of your merchandise under a corporate heading as "office decor" and had added them to your depreciation schedule for your taxes. Let's say, you depreciated them out fully over, 5 years or so, and then you consigned them to an auction. By law, whatever you received from this sale, would be considered RECAPTURING of the depreciation and would be subject to capital gains. That is of course, if you report the income on your tax return. Which, if you were receiving anything over $10,000, once you took the money to the bank in any form (check, cash, m.o.,etc) they would fill out what's called a large-currency movement report that would go straight to the IRS.

If the items you are selling are considered an "estate" then I know the rules are different. Generally, guys have the amount they paid for an item noted + related expenses, so after it sells, there's an established profit-figure which they will pay regular income tax on, providing they report it on their Tax Return. I'm not real sure what you are driving at, but when I have an auction, the income is noted in my taxes along with the dispersements back to the consignors, so one way or another, it's being reported.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#21998 Tue Apr 29 2008 06:19 PM
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Also...to clarify, my offer to take consignments at 10% commission are based on a sale that charges a 10% Buyer's Premium.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#21999 Tue Apr 29 2008 06:39 PM
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Seth,
Now you have me wondering. What is the normal for a auction house to charge?

I am not for sure but i think Rex Benson paid for advertising, place to do the auction, ads on oldgas and magizines. Dan can correct me if i am wrong but i was thinking he did. If so what would a guy expect to pay to have an auction?

I know there are some advantages to selling with an auction house for example the Harbor sign wouldn't have done what it did if on ebay.


Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.
Re: Selling off a collection.
#22000 Tue Apr 29 2008 09:02 PM
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You have some very nice items. I would check with the people with the Iowa Gas Show in Des Moines, Iowa. This is the one of the biggest gas shows around and it draws collectors from around the country. Check out www.iowagas.com

Re: Selling off a collection.
#22001 Wed Apr 30 2008 04:43 AM
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Hey Seth, I'm glad you clarified the buyers prem. of 10% plus your 10%,,,, now it makes sense... I'm from Canada and I know there isn't anyone up here that would get an auction done for 10% all inclusive,,we have very few auctions here that have a buyers prem.There is a large auction in Sept. here in Canada it's in the $750-$1 millon range and there is NO buyers prem. and I'm pretty sure the seller is paying either 15% or 20% ?? The auction house does all the work and pays all the bills..


Wes.......
Re: Selling off a collection.
#22002 Wed Apr 30 2008 08:12 AM
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what auction in sept are you referring to wes?

personally know of no one up here that will do auctions for only 20% all in, with no buyers premium! but then again probably dont know as many as yourself!

note: appears that stapleton is selling of his b/a collection.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#22003 Wed Apr 30 2008 09:37 AM
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It's in Sept., 19th and 20th. Shackelton's Auctioneers, at their place in Springfield ON. ( between Woodstock and London , south of the 401 hwy. approx.15 miles on the Putnam road,) the items belong to Ed. Hoysa from the Burlington area, a long time collector..Shackelton's Auctioneer's partner in these petroliana auctions is the famous Gordy Sackrider ( Sackman) who is the ringman for RM Auctions, Dean Kruse Auctions and many more, including his own..

[This message has been edited by Wes Hague (edited 04-30-2008).]


Wes.......
Re: Selling off a collection.
#22004 Wed Apr 30 2008 09:42 AM
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I feel like the 10%/10% sort of spreads the risk both to the buyer & the seller, which is important when you are doing a consignment sale. A lot of guys can stomach letting you have 50 signs to auction, if they know the worst they will be out is 10%. I know a lot of people don't like the Buyer's Premium, but I think without it, a lot of auctions just wouldn't take place.

Re: Selling off a collection.
#22005 Wed Apr 30 2008 09:54 AM
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I don't understand what risk there is to the buyer by adding a buyers premium, to me all it does is it gets the buyers to help pay the auctioneers instead of the seller paying the other 10%... or do I understand that right ? The seller is the one who gains if the auctioneer wants 20% in the end. He pays 10% and the buyer pays 10%..It doesn't work that way in any other business that I'm aware of..Besides Seth, why should the buyer have ANY of the risk, he's the customer, it was already good enough for him to show up and purchase the goods.

[This message has been edited by Wes Hague (edited 04-30-2008).]


Wes.......
Re: Selling off a collection.
#22006 Wed Apr 30 2008 11:24 AM
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I guess risk is/was a poor choice of words. Granted, my view of auctions is jaded by the fact that ALL of my sales are consignment-based, rather than one single estate. Generally, if I have a 500 lot auction, I own 100 pieces or so and maybe 10 other guys own the remaining 400. What I'm saying is, that most guys wouldn't give me the opportunity to auction there items if they had to shoulder the entire 20%, therefore, 99.9% of the buying public would not have the opportunity to then purchase the merchandise. What I'm trying to say, by splitting the 20% between the buyer & the seller, the quality & quantity of available merchandise goes up, so you are able to have more auctions. Obviously, when I attend one of Dan's sales as a buyer, I wish there were no buyer's premium, just like everybody else... BUT I understand that it is almost like a consumption tax, where I realize if I wasn't paying the 10% BP, chances are, I wouldn't have the opportunity to buy the stuff because the seller would've just privately sold the merchandise, rather than shoulder the entire 20%. What I'm saying is, by this hobby pretty much adopting a 10% Buyer's Premium as industry-standard, it has ensured itself more auctions which translate into more buying opportunities for the collective, rather than just a few guys that can afford 6-figure collections buying up all the merchandise. I hope that better explains my view....if not, we'll keep trying!!!

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