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#158216 Sun Nov 01 2009 06:11 PM
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I am trying to restore an Erie 71 pump. I am new to restoring pumps and I am having a terrible time locating any information on the Erie 71 pump. Very few of the restoration outfits even have any parts for them. Does anyone out there have any information, pictures, parts, and especially advice for me? I am also trying to locate a glass top for the pump. I guess it isn't a globe, but rather a milky colored piece of glass that has a hump in the middle. There is an old post with a picture on this forum where a guy sold one. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

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coopwyo #158228 Sun Nov 01 2009 07:10 PM
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Finding a glass top for any pump is expensive. Most are worth more than a restored pump w/ globe.
T-way on this site has the largest collection of ERIE 70/71's that I know of.
Jack Sim has a web site full of brochures for sale of most pumps & equipment found around old stations.
Joe Yocom can restore or help with the VR/CLOCK mech.
T-way & myself can help with custom decals/adv. glass
[after I get my wrist fixed]
db


Dick Bennett #158240 Sun Nov 01 2009 07:49 PM
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Here are some that were at actions.




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Dick Bennett #158242 Sun Nov 01 2009 07:50 PM
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I'm the one that sold the top, hard item to find, good luck...Frank


I collect anything Hyvis oils
MATT ALVAREZ #158243 Sun Nov 01 2009 07:53 PM
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Here is a top for the globe model.


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MATT ALVAREZ #158252 Sun Nov 01 2009 08:03 PM
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Like those Erie's. But if they dont have a top watch out cashy eek


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Brad Ralston & my website is
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gasoildude #158255 Sun Nov 01 2009 08:10 PM
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Good luck finding one! I also have the same pump and it's missing the top.

Check out this thread: Erie 71 top discussion

Last edited by badgas; Sun Nov 01 2009 08:52 PM.
coopwyo #158273 Sun Nov 01 2009 09:01 PM
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I have the following available for your pump:
Faces; upper stainless bars; stainless on each side of the site glass; site glass (dome); ID tag; reset crank & parts breakdown.
Ron


Ron Scobie
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Ron Scobie #158301 Mon Nov 02 2009 06:53 AM
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Here is a picture of mine. It is also missing the top. I also couldnt find the globe adapter when i was attempting to restore this pump. So i took a metal coffee can flipped it upside down and placed a globe ring on top. You cant tell thats what it is until you get real close to it. Also i used a piece of flat metal and bent to fit where the stainless should go. I was being real cheap on this pump. Eventually i will break it down and redo it right, but it works for now. I have seen t-ways stainless and it is very nice im sure Rons are as well. Good luck and post some pictures.


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s932 #158322 Mon Nov 02 2009 09:00 AM
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I have all the stainless trim pieces up at the top, but I am missing some of the clips that hold them on. I also am missing the stainless trim that goes around the window on one door. I can't figure out how the glass is supposed to be held in the doors. The stainless that I have that goes around the area for the nozzle is not good -- it is pretty bent up. The rest of the pump is in pretty good shape. Mr. Scobie -- is the parts breakdown just a list, or is there an exploded view of the pump? As far as the glass on top goes, I really want the milk glass top rather than a globe and am prepared to pay what it takes to get one. All the pictures and help so far have been great -- please keep them coming, Lord knows I need the help!

coopwyo #158323 Mon Nov 02 2009 09:04 AM
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One other thing I'm missing is the nozzle itself. I don't even know which one it needs.

coopwyo #158326 Mon Nov 02 2009 09:25 AM
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Cant help you with the nozzle sorry. The trim i would just use double sided tape. Im pretty sure the glass is on the frame not the door, it goes behind the face plates. Good luck with the top it will be hard to find.


Originals only for me. Always looking for Simpson oil, Super A, and MFA oil cans and globes.
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s932 #158332 Mon Nov 02 2009 10:25 AM
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I believe that all or most of the nozzles used by Erie were Buckeye nozzles. I have never seen a nozzle with the Erie name on it.
I have a section on my website that identifies many of the nozzles that were with the pump when it left the factory. A fair pictore of your nozzle is at: http://www.petrolianacollectibles.com/erie%20nozzles.htm

I'll look through the 100s of nozzles I have and see if I have one for your pump.

Jack Sim


Author, 1st & 2nd editions of Gas Pump ID book, 3rd edition is now available at www.gaspumpbible.com
Air Meter ID book also available
coopwyo #158356 Mon Nov 02 2009 02:01 PM
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Emailed you some info.
Ron


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http://www.gaspump.com or
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Phone - Six five one-653-6503
Ron Scobie #158363 Mon Nov 02 2009 03:09 PM
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Not looking to start a repop vs original war here but is there some reason why nobody's made a mould and reproduced (marked of course) that top? Seems like 75% of the 71s out there are missing that top so I'd think there'd be a market for it.

chrisbowers #158372 Mon Nov 02 2009 04:02 PM
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From what i can remember here on oldgas that topic came up and no one was willing to let someone make a mold of their original top for fear of being broken. If i had one i would probably say the same thing.


Originals only for me. Always looking for Simpson oil, Super A, and MFA oil cans and globes.
Shawn Morris
s932 #158386 Mon Nov 02 2009 05:21 PM
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1 was offered [not mine], guess no one wanted to take responsibility for it.

coopwyo #158390 Mon Nov 02 2009 05:36 PM
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It appears that you would need to make a three-piece mold.

The original glass tops look like they were blow-molded. The lower lips curve into the center of the piece. You could not simply mold the piece and then pull it 'up' out of the mold. You would need a left and a right side and a top piece to mold one.

The process would be quite different than reproducing a regular Milkglass body.

As is usual for the reproduction of fairly rare pump parts - the costs are prohibitive for the limited amount of sales.

Everyone 'says' they would buy one - but how many of you would actually step up to the plate if they were $500.00 or $600.00 retail?

Or could you live with a plastic reproduction piece? Like the repro tops for the 36B pumps?

Later . . .

Jim

T-way #158396 Mon Nov 02 2009 05:51 PM
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The less produced the higher the repo price, because of cost of molds & imperfections.
As Joe Yocom found out with the signs, everyone wants a PERFECT PIECE.

T-way #158398 Mon Nov 02 2009 05:54 PM
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Good point Jim i could live with a plastic version. But hey im cheap like that.


Originals only for me. Always looking for Simpson oil, Super A, and MFA oil cans and globes.
Shawn Morris
s932 #158443 Mon Nov 02 2009 09:57 PM
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I could live with a plastic version as well, until a suitable original replacement could be found. At least this way I'd get the pump restored. Now it's just sitting because I don't the top.

badgas #158459 Tue Nov 03 2009 06:48 AM
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Yeah a well made plastic version I think would serve a lot of people well. Look how many acrylic cylinders are out there, not that I really like acrylic cylinders, but there's a lot of them in use. I'm with Badgas, better to at least have a placeholder, if you will, to get the pump restored rather than it just sitting in the garage waiting for the day you find an original.

chrisbowers #158465 Tue Nov 03 2009 07:35 AM
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Let's not forget how good this pump looks with a globe on top. Although mine is a factory globe mount pump, if I waited for a factory milk glass top to come around, mine would never be restored. If I had an original milk glass model without the factory globe mount, I would cut a piece of flat stock to fit on the top of the pump and mount a globe holder on it. Then I'd sit back, pop open a cold one, and admire my lastest addition to my collection, just my 2 cents... Brady

coopwyo #158468 Tue Nov 03 2009 08:07 AM
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Brady's got the right idea. All you need to do if you have the sheetmetal top piece is to cut a suitable piece of flat steel (with a clearance hole in the center for the bulb), screw it down to the top and mount a globe ring in the center. Viola - ready for the globe of your choice!

If you have the sheetmetal top - there is really no excuse for not restoring these great looking Art Deco pumps.

If you sit on the pump waiting for a glass top to magically appear for sale - you'll be waiting a long time.

How many have we seen sell in the last 3-4- years? One? Maybe two?

I drove all the way to California from Michigan to buy an Erie 70 with a glass top. How many of you are willing to go to that extreme?

Just saying . . .

Later . . .

Jim

T-way #158606 Tue Nov 03 2009 09:37 PM
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Jim I would if the price was right. Plus like you said "IF" a top comes up for sale you better be ready to pay dearly for it. There are a few hundred other people looking for one too. Is anyone re-popping the the top in plastic?


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gasoildude #158632 Wed Nov 04 2009 09:23 AM
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Not at this time to my knowledge.

Again, there is a high initial investment for the molds to make this piece in plastic. Less than it would be for a full-on glass version, but substaintal non-the-less.

If anyone is serious about wanting these done in plastic - shoot me an e-mail at: T-ways@email.com.

If I get enough response, I'll look into it and see if I can figure out how to make it happen economically.

Later . . .

Jim

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I looked into it a few years ago & decided it was not economically realistic.
I doubt if a maker could sell 50 in 3 yrs. either in glass or plastic.
My 1st attempt at making with cast resin FAILED.
Making with Vacuum Formed Plastic or Blown/Cast Glass you'll need at least a 3 part mold. No matter which way someone goes they will still have rejects that have to recovered in cost.
db

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I have 2 of the milkglass tops and after looking at how they are shaped, it would be pretty difficult to repo them.

kentjay56 #158655 Wed Nov 04 2009 05:21 PM
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It wouldn't be impossible,just a very costly mold. It would have to be cast out of aluminum and have hinged pieces at the top(actually the bottom of the part) of the mold to allow for removal of the part.

Last edited by oilmanpat; Wed Nov 04 2009 05:22 PM.
oilmanpat #158657 Wed Nov 04 2009 05:23 PM
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This was looked into before and decided that it would be cost inhibitive.

oilmanpat #158669 Wed Nov 04 2009 06:47 PM
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Unlike the 36/36B tops that have 4 tapered sides. The ERIE has an under cut all around bottom w/ 2 large ones for the site glasses.
Could delete the bottom under cut, but still have site glass area to contend with as in Oilmanpat's mold.

Dick Bennett #158743 Thu Nov 05 2009 11:32 AM
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Does anyone know the age range of this pump? The ID tag on it has a serial number of JH 2237.

coopwyo #158745 Thu Nov 05 2009 11:41 AM
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1936- 1938 as listed in Jack's book. With exception of GULF pumps, their next pump was introduced in 1940

Dick Bennett #159399 Tue Nov 10 2009 08:50 AM
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Does anyone have any up close pictures of the little door under the nozzle that controls the latch mechanism for the two main doors? I am missing the keyed lock that keeps that little door closed -- anybody have one? If you have a lock, I can get it re-keyed. I also need the L shaped piece of 5/16" rod that connects to the little door and the latch mechanism -- ours broke off right at the threads.

coopwyo #159436 Tue Nov 10 2009 03:30 PM
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Ok guys,it would take an aluminum mold that has hinged pieces laying horiz. around the top. This way,when you demolded the part,the undercut areas would pull as the hinges allowed the mold to open in these areas. I work where we have made several of this type of molds for different pieces such as the overhead console in a winnabego motor home, several of the plastic ends that are on the running boards that are sold aftermarket and even a set of molds that were used to make one brand of portapotties. After we had a mold we would still need to find a shop that vacformed or else try to do it on our own. I would thing that the people that make the backlit plastic signs would be the ones to seek out or their plastic material would be what one would try to use in vacforming this top.

oilmanpat #159437 Tue Nov 10 2009 03:33 PM
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You would need at least 1/2 of a glass top if anyone has even a broken one to use to make a pattern.

coopwyo #162485 Mon Nov 30 2009 08:21 AM
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Here are a couple pictures of a tool that my class invented to get the sight glass retaining rings loose on the Erie 71 pump we are trying to restore. The rings were really rusted into the cast iron top and I didn't want the kids banging on them with a hammer and punch. Leave it to a bunch of farm kids from Wyoming to utilize a horseshoe! The tool worked absolutely perfectly. We are still trying to locate a milk glass top for this pump. If anyone out there can help us out, please let me know.

gas pump tool.JPG
Here are a couple pictures of a tool that my class invented to get the sight glass retaining rings loose on the Erie 71 pump we are trying to restore. The rings were really rusted into the cast iron top and I didn't want the kids banging on them with a h

tool use.JPG
coopwyo #162507 Mon Nov 30 2009 11:51 AM
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I saw on a show the other day where they used a blowing table instead of a vacuum forming table, to blow a heated plastic sheet into a 1/2 bubble.

With a two piece mold and a blowing table, would a repro top be closer to a reality??????


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
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chrisbowers #162568 Mon Nov 30 2009 06:22 PM
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Well that all sucks because I need a top also for my 71 that is sitting under the dust so maybe it will continue to sit until someone, oh maybe like Ron. will make a mold. Hah ha. Maybe I will past it on to my son as a big paper weight.


Kris Strong
SOUTHFLORIDAGAS #162600 Mon Nov 30 2009 09:06 PM
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SOUTHFLORIDAGAS mentioned Ron. He does nice cast iron parts. Why dont we have him make cast iron tops and we can paint them white to look like milk glass.


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MATT ALVAREZ #162604 Mon Nov 30 2009 09:21 PM
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...would someone who has 'looked into this' please post the approximate cost of getting these made, in glass and/or plastic?...it's killing me, I gotta know...


Looking for better Gulf items: signs, globes, cans and paper - especially porcelain Gulf flanges, and Gulf A-38 & A-62 ad glass...
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What is the deal with the top on this pump? I've seen a picture of a restored black pump that also has this kind of a top on it. Is this an original piece, or something someone fabricated? The black pump I saw had a globe on it rather than the milk glass top and it looked really sharp.

Erie70a.jpg
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It's the Base of the Station Lighter.

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What is a Station Lighter?

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Photo taken by Jack Sim @ Iowa Gas 2004

Station Lighter on a Tokheim 39

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Is the one on that Erie pump in the picture an Erie part, or is it a Station Lighter from a different brand of pump that was retro-fitted? If that is actually an Erie part, is it as rare and impossible to find as the milk glass top?

coopwyo #162858 Wed Dec 02 2009 01:56 PM
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Casting on Erie is for the Erie Pylon-lite, all through some generic station lighters will fit & will be easier to find than the glass top [& less expensive] or an Erie Pylon-lite.

Dick Bennett #162881 Wed Dec 02 2009 03:34 PM
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Ok guys. I can build a plastic vacform mold to make this top for around $5000.00 which includes materials. I would need an original top to measure so the part doesn't come out small and also use the top to show the vacforming facility to make sure my design of the mold would run in their facility. These parts would be made out of plastic that is the same as current box type sign are now. I honestly have no idea of how the top would fair in the outdoors. I think it should last the same as current box signs do now. The mold would have a life of maybe 100 parts before it would need to be replaced.

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You'll have to sell 20 @ $250 ea just to pay for mold, & that's not counting the rejects/2nds Plus you'll be doing them for Free [because your a NICE GUY !].

So how many are Really Willing to step up & pay $350-400 ?

Convert your pumps to hold regular globes, you'll be happier in the long run.
jm2c

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Originally Posted By: Dick Bennett
You'll have to sell 20 @ $250 ea just to pay for mold, & that's not counting the rejects/2nds Plus you'll be doing them for Free [because your a NICE GUY !].

So how many are Really Willing to step up & pay $350-400 ?

Convert your pumps to hold regular globes, you'll be happier in the long run.
jm2c


$350-400 is a fair price for a repop top, in my opinion.

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If I can't come up with an original, I'd take one.

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I would also take a plastic or glass reproduction. If a good glass repro could be made, I would be glad to pay $500 or so for it. If it were plastic/acrylic then $250 or so would be a fair price. As others have said, the market is there if someone will just make it.

archimedes #163043 Thu Dec 03 2009 12:13 PM
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This site has over 11,000+ members & yet in this & other threads about the ERIE GLASS TOP, less than 20 have said they would step up to buy a repo. That is not enough to justify a production run.
I've talked to the guy that did the 36B repo plastic top & he is not interested in doing this top.


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We need a door catch like the one in the picture for the Erie 71 my class is restoring. If anyone has a trashed door with a catch on it that they could cut off for us, please let me know. Still looking for a milk glass top as well -- please help!!!!

erie 71 door latch.JPG
coopwyo #163292 Sat Dec 05 2009 10:35 AM
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I'm still looking for the sheet metal top. I am lucky enough to have an original Cleveland Petrol globe for mine.

Anyone producing the sheet metal? I would mould one in fiberglass if I had a pattern, no problem but I'm in the UK and I don't know anyone with one to copy.

Any ideas?

Classicfix #163364 Sat Dec 05 2009 04:45 PM
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After reading through all these posts, it appears that a lot of the reason someone doesn't make a reproduction is that the veteran members want to protect the outrageous value of their original glass tops.

powerdog55 #163409 Sat Dec 05 2009 08:33 PM
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Powerdog55:

If you want to pony up the approximately $7,000.00 it would take to have these reproduced in PLASTIC (not glass, glass would be much more) - I'll personally deliver my 'outragously valued' original glass top to your mold maker to use as a pattern.

Just have your tooling guy contact me.

My e-mail address is all over my web site. Just 'click' on the graphic below.

Later . . .

Jim

T-way #163424 Sun Dec 06 2009 06:49 AM
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If you do not make parts you can not understand. There are mabe 20 people that say they want them when it comes down to it mabe five of them will come up with $$$. So you invest in tooling and have to make at least 50 ( a lifetime supply) mabe you sell 35 amd get most of you money back. Does this sound like something you want to do?

ward zaharia #163448 Sun Dec 06 2009 08:33 AM
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Are trying to say that there are only 35 unrestored Erie pumps out there? I doubt it. It also sounds like you are assuming everyone trying to restore a pump is cheap. I'd certainly rather pay $500.00 for a good reproduction than the $5000 you think your originals are worth. Oilmanpat already said he can get a mold made for around $5000 -- why don't you graciously offer your top to him so he can get it done?

powerdog55 #163451 Sun Dec 06 2009 08:50 AM
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Money is the main factor on getting them made. As most of us are common joes that go to work every day to pay the bills & put food on the table we cant come up with that kind of money to make the molds. Plus not everyone will want to pay $500 or more for a top. If you pay to make the mold you have to pay for the material plus the factory to do the molds for you. That could cost another $2500 at least. So lets just say $7000 to $10,000 to get this done. Most people that I know in this hobby can not afford this. Plus not everyone that needs a top will pay that kind of money for one.


Wanted Owens Motor Oil & Mobiloil Gargoyle.
Brad Ralston & my website is
www.petrobarn.com
powerdog55 #163460 Sun Dec 06 2009 09:19 AM
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Good morning to all:
Most here do not know me or what we had produced in the past. 15 years ago We came out with the Mobilgas and Mobilgas special lenses that would fit into the Martin Schwartz pumps. We went on later to include Sunoco and Conoco lenses, and finally the 36 tops that Andy had at Park Drive Garage. I have always wanted to make this top or at least try, but never had a glass one in my hand. After viewing this post now, I would be happy to assist in reproducing these to help out people needing things now and in the future. I believe that there is a very small market out there, and that was true of the Conocos and 36 tops. But given the choice, people might think twice about restoring one of these pumps. I would however agree with some of the other posters here that it may or may not have an effect on original ones. In some instances the originals may be of more value just because more of that model pumps are being restored, and some may then want only original parts. I am open to suggestions.
Thanks


Craig
Craig Osbeck #163466 Sun Dec 06 2009 09:30 AM
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I do not care who makes the top, it sounds as if we have two people willing to try. I myself have a pump and would buy one. Whoever wants to do this, go for it and ask people to put down a %25 deposit on the top. This would in turn help with the molding and production costs up front. T-way is willing to use his top and gracious we are for that. I will take one and send my deposit.


Thanks, Phil
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gasoildude #163471 Sun Dec 06 2009 09:35 AM
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powerdog55 welcome to oldgas.nice way to introduce yourself!


Looking for gas,oil related clocks,especially neon and spinners .clock repair available. Mick
oldnfuelish #163475 Sun Dec 06 2009 09:46 AM
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I have to agree with Craig. If most people are given a choice, I bet they would like to buy a repro of this top to restore their pump. Many people just lurk and read forums and never post. Many buyers won't comment on a purchase until they see an actual product. I hope you can make it happen Craig, I look forward to buying one of these tops if you do.

archimedes #163486 Sun Dec 06 2009 10:30 AM
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If anyone expects someone to do these and NOT make a profit is LOONEY.


Veeder Root Rebuilds.....since 1987
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jkyocom@bellsouth.net
jkyocom #163535 Sun Dec 06 2009 02:01 PM
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Craig:

Give me a call on our Toll Free Number: 866.546.4067.

Or drop me a line at T-ways@email.com.

Maybe we can get some of these done for the people that want to restore these great looking pumps.

Later . . .

Jim

T-way #163543 Sun Dec 06 2009 02:50 PM
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I'm fine with paying $500 for a repro top. That's nothing in comparison to the price of some of the original globes are selling for. I know that repro globes are a lot cheaper than $500, but still, having a repro top for the Erie is better than nothing.

I'm down to put down a fair deposit.

coopwyo #163544 Sun Dec 06 2009 02:50 PM
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I have an Erie 70 and 71, I like the art deco look. Glass tops very rare, I wish I had one

56chiefstar #163588 Sun Dec 06 2009 06:30 PM
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oldnfuelish -- thanks for the welcome. I've been reading posts here for several years and it never ceases to amaze me how the big-whigs in the hobby think everything they have is gold and the little guy with a pump or two has got junk. I can't believe that if they are really into promoting the hobby, restoring pumps, and not in it for the investment postential, that they would not be overjoyed at the prospect of having a quality reproduction part that would help people out. It seems that some folks are more interested in hoarding than helping.

powerdog55 #163590 Sun Dec 06 2009 06:38 PM
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coopwyo Offline OP
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I would definitely buy a reproduction top if one became available (or an original, for that matter). I would also be happy to put down a deposit as long as I could be assured of the quality of the part.

coopwyo #163609 Sun Dec 06 2009 08:17 PM
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Having read all the posts after my intitial one here, I am very hopefull that we can bring this item to everyone. I am not interested personally in getting a deposit from anyone or front money on this, as I would want to do the best we could and then release it for your inspection. Nothing worse than disappointment. We will seek the necessary things on this and try to keep this site posted.
Thank you for your help and encouragement.


Craig
Craig Osbeck #163613 Sun Dec 06 2009 08:52 PM
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Thanks for making the effort to do this Craig.

archimedes #163629 Sun Dec 06 2009 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: archimedes
Thanks for making the effort to do this Craig.


I'll secong that!

coopwyo #163804 Tue Dec 08 2009 12:35 AM
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Hi guys

Is anyone going to reproduce the metal top as well? Even in another material?

Classicfix #167283 Tue Dec 29 2009 04:43 PM
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Craig -- any updates on the glass/plastic top for Erie pumps? Thanks.
Chris

coopwyo #168204 Sun Jan 03 2010 08:28 PM
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I likeShell [Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
MATT ALVAREZ #168205 Sun Jan 03 2010 08:29 PM
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here is a picture


I likeShell [Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
MATT ALVAREZ #171457 Sat Jan 23 2010 02:42 PM
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Any updates on the plastic/glass reproduction?

archimedes #171499 Sat Jan 23 2010 07:53 PM
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Wondering the same thing also.


Thanks, Phil
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Looking for any old pumps, or nice 5 gallon cans.
philmccauley #171863 Mon Jan 25 2010 10:14 PM
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coopwyo Offline OP
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I've been wondering about that as well. We are still looking for a glass top for this pump -- any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Chris

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