Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Gargole sign, what do you think?

GREAT CLAES...THAT'S GOTTA BE A GREAT FEELING!

...hmmm...look at the word "GARGOYLE" on the paper sign - see how each letter is 'compressed' from left to right?...same with the "Mobiloil" lettering, it's too tall and skinny...I'm not sure at all that that sign is old...I can easily do that in Adobe Illustrator (it's called 'horizontal scaling'), but I don't know how a graphic artist in 1928 could have done it, and why would he, if he had the Mobiloil artwork on file...and it sure doesn't look like the "GARGOYLE" lettering I've seen on anything else...

It would make a good barn hanger for about $20. At least the seller was decent about it Claes. That is getting to be few a & far between now days

He'd have done it for the same reason a current graphic artist would have - he wanted the lettering to be a certain height and only had so much width to work with.

Do you seriously think that the artist that did this art decades ago were any less talented than today's artists? They did all the art we covet using techniques that you have never even tried.

Most of today's graphic artists don't even know where the terms 'Cut' and 'paste' come from - those commands are just something in a computer program.

Have you ever hand-set type, or actually typed out your text 'line by line' on a Linotype machine for a real printing press?

'nuff said.

Later . . .

Jim

OK, I believe the sign is a fake. Wouldn't mind owning it ,just to hang it outside, but would not pay too much for it.
>Good thing was, the seller was honest!
Take care, now you know what to look for if any signs like this shows up on your side of the pond-:-)
all the bst!
Claes

...show me another Gargoyle sign that we all KNOW to be old, that has that condensed lettering...there's red in the letters in just about every original sign I've seen (even the globes) - there's red on this sign, but it's not the GARGOYLE lettering...I wonder why...


...let's do be careful here, Tway - you don't know what 'techniques' I've tried...and for my comments to be derisive of early graphic designers, I would have to believe they had something to do with this sign - which I don't...the modern-day hack who created it was, shall we say, insensitive and lazy...


...no argument there...


...have you?...I haven't...I have used a Kroy Typesetter, but that's different than a Linotype machine...designers didn't type out lead type for use on a printing press...that what the guys setting the type did...and they weren't prone to make decisions like how tall the letters in the logo should be, or they'd be out on the bread line...

...but hey, now that I'm done with your ridiculous "I'm a more old-school artist than you are" bit - my original point was that I really believe your cardboard sign isn't old, meaning it's not 1930's old...the type arched along the top was done on a computer...designers back in the 1930's wouldn't have compressed an existing font - it would have taken too long, as they would have had to do it by hand - they would have chosen a narrower font...y'know - one where the horizontal strokes aren't THICKER than the vertical ones...assuming they could get clearance from their boss (the Director of Advertising for Vacuum Oil) to change the logo, and make the letters different from any other Gargoyle sign/ad/globe...

I have always assumed that Linotype was used in printing & silkscreens were used in the making of porcelain signs & assumed they were hand cut.
Guess I am wrong Again.

...from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linotype_machine

"The Linotype machine is a "line casting" machine used in printing. The machine revolutionized printing and especially newspaper publishing, making it possible for a relatively small number of operators to set type for many pages on a daily basis.

The Linotype machine operator enters text on a 90-character keyboard. The machine assembles matrices, which are molds for the letter forms, into a line. The assembled line is then cast as a single piece, called a slug, of type metal. The matrices are then returned to the type magazine from which they came. The name of the machine comes from the fact that it produces an entire line of metal type at once, hence a line-o-type. This allows much faster typesetting and composition than original hand composition in which operators place down one pre-cast metal letter, punctuation mark or space at a time."

...there is a modern-day company called Linotype, that sells computer fonts...

in the 1960's i started working in the graphic arts field hand setting type, then using a very old hand fed Heidelberg windmill letter press..then moved on to a auto-wind mill letter press then on to the more modern offset presses....i have tried lino type couple of times but don't remeber much about it however i do remeber much from setup to bindery in the graphic field .....

I'd have say the porcelain sign looks questionable and the cardboard display is definitely wrong. I've been an art director for 18 years, doing page layout before computers were in the work place. The GARGOYLE font was done in Arial Narrow Bold which was designed in 1982 by Robin Nicholas and Patricia Saunders for Monotype Typography. That dates that piece after the year 1982 and whoever did the display still messed with the horizontal scaling which is a big no no for the true typographer.

...no DB - you're right...Linotype was used for printing on paper...silkscreens (and some stencils) were used in the making of porcelain signs...most silkscreens would have been created by hand-cutting a red or orange film from a carrier sheet, and weeding out what was to be printed - what remained would have been adhered to the screen, to block out areas not to be printed...some silkscreens would have been created using a photographically sensitive emulsion...stencils would have been hand-cut...although I have not seen one, I would presume they were made from something durable, like sheet brass...

Edited because I don't want this to turn into something it should not be.

I believe the original poster's question has been adquately answered.

Later . . .

Jim

Just a quick question T-Way......... how did you do the lettering on your H. Earl Clack Hi-Power lenses? Especially the words "HECCOLENE" and "OILS".

Sorry Bob - but I can't answer that question.

The H. Earl Clack lenses we are selling were created and produced by Pogo before we bought the company. We are selling these lenses at a 'Close Out' price to get rid of them. We have no plans on making any more in the future.

This image is also available from Mike Slama. That is why we are not going to be making more. There are just not enough collectors/pump restorers for Mike and I to be producing the same 'not so mainstream' images.

If you look at the lettering you mentioned, you will see that it is not correct to an original. If I had to guess, I'd say that Lance picked a font that was 'close' and left it at that - but you'd have to ask him how he came up with the lettering.

When I'm reproducing lettering from an original lens, I start with a current computer font that is 'close' to the original. Then I convert the font to 'Art' and manipulate the outer/inner lines to match the original lettering as close as possible. In essence, turning it into a 'hand lettered' font. I find that this is much quicker than redrawing each and every line.

Of course, sometimes you have to do it the hard way since there is no current font available that works.

All my 'original' lens art files are created MUCH larger than the final lens size. This way any minor imperfections in the lettering or art shrink when the art is reduced to the final lens size for production.

I hope I answered you question.

Later . . .

Jim

Okay . . . I just checked Mike Slama's web site and I can't find the H. Earl Clack lenses.

Either I am mistaken - or he has 'Sold Out' of the image.

None-the-less, we are still not planning on making any more H. Earl Clack lenses.

So if you even think you might want a set - give us a shout. They're a real bargain at only $135.00/pair!

Later . . .

Jim