Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Guts or Gutless...

...I'm starting a new topic, as it was never my intention to hijack Mark's topic about his Wayne 60 showcase:

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=153164

...but I would like to keep this discussion alive...I think it's healthy for the hobby...so here goes:



...there are lots of restored cars in museums that aren't driven...

...there are lots of heavy Coke machines and fountain dispensers in collections that aren't used, but aren't gutted...

...I'm trying to think of another hobby that discards the mechanics of what they're collecting...and taxidermy or conchology (the study of sea shells) are the only two things that come to mind other than gas pumps...I'm all ears if anyone can think of another...

...you don't restore the guts to use the pump again, you restore them because you're restoring the pump and the guts are part of it...

...I only brought it up as it seems Mark has a rare pump, that is only distinguishable from more common converted pumps by the pump...yes, KW's photos show many details that distinguish the true showcases from the converted ones...I think it's valuable to show HOW the pump company redesigned the guts to a small area to allow for a display case...something that's totally lost when such a pump is gutless...you can point here and there and show where something USED to be, but it's not the same thing...

...the term 'pump police' is often used...it's a cute term and does what it's intended to do, distract from the issue at hand by ridiculing the opposing view with hyperbole...but, like antique and collectible cars (which are inarguably linked to gas pumps, collectible-wise) the more authentic a restoration, the more historically valuable the pump is, the more it will be worth in the long run...which brings me back to Gilmore's reply:



...hopefully he will be able to find one that hasn't been gutted...

Good idea gulfiend as I would like to hear/read others' opinions. Rarely do threads stay on topic but always nice NOT to hijack anothers thread. Didn't mean to attack you, just don't understand that argument.

I have not went to every car museum but ones I have, I have rarely seen a vehicle restored without an engine or one that there is no intent on installing one. Usually, when I ask about the "restored" vehicle I am told the engine is intact, maintained and run at least once a year.

I see pumps with or without guts sell for the same price range. I have always believed/been told it is buyer preference. Some care, some do not. Some prefer the old paint, patina and believe repainting the pump is sacrilegious. Some people have skills and can paint and some can't, thus ruining the look of a pump.

Other hobbys that have innards removed are; appliances such as old fridges and stoves, cast iron parlor stoves,...

I think the situation is more "What are you going to do with the pump after the restoration?" If the pump is to be displayed in a garage or outside a garage, leaving the guts in the pump would be appropriate, but if the pump is to be displayed in a family room or a restaurent, the guts should be removed.

Having taken many pumps apart I know there is old gasoline inside the pump and the meter, what is your suggestion on getting rid of this bad smelling gasoline if you are not gutting the pump?

Jack Sim

Honestly, I have no idea how you could prove such an assertion. It's undeniable, MOST people in our hobby prefer the guts to be removed. The value of a pump is equal to what most people are willing to pay for it.

And...comparing cars to pumps is like comparing apples and oranges. Restored cars for the most part can be used for their original intent. Restored pumps cannot, the EPA has a pretty big problem with folks putting underground storeage tanks on their property, filling them up with gas and using their 'restored pump'

WELL SAID, Ohio Oil

THANKS AGAIN ON THE INPUT ON THE SHOWCASE WAYNE 60.I HAVE RESTORED MANY PUMPS OVER THE YEARS AND HAVE GUTTED 90%OF THE ELECTRIC PUMPS I HAVE RESTORED.THE VISIBLE PUMPS I HAVE DONE I ALWAYS LEAVE INTACT TO REPLACE THE PUMP HANDLE.WITH THIS PARTICULAR WAYNE 60 BEING AN ORIGINAL? SHOWCASE DISPLAY PUMP I WILL LEAVE THE INSIDES INTACT JUST BECAUSE THE LOWER PUMP MECHANISM IS UNIQUE TO THE SHOWCASE PUMP FROM WHAT I CAN GATHER FROM EVERYONE'S INPUT.NOT JUST ANOTHER MADE UP DISPLAY MODEL.I AGREE 100% WITH GULFIENDS OPINION ON THIS ONE AND APPRECIATE THE SUGGESTION.THANKS AGAIN.MARK

How many of the hanging jet aircraft @ the Smithsonian Air Museum still have the engines intact ?
Ronald Reagan's Presidential Helo. & Plane are not intact as used when in service, @ his library.

Does Museum Quality include: 1gal of Bondo, Reproduction parts, plating, pin striping, clear coating, Fantasy Oil Companies?

Less than 1% of collectors care if the GUTS are in Electric Gas Pumps.

It takes GUTS to make a real "RESTORATION",
In all actuality it should be in working order to truely be restored.
But hey.....
It's yours do what you want.
BUT,,,, if there are wasp nests in your computer and the insides are still rusted, DON'T CALL IT RESTORED !!!!!
And most if not ALL cabinet parts that are brass were plated at one time.!!!!!!!
even the UL tags.

And....if you want a 'real restoration' better put away the clear coats, high end glossy paint, and any paint scheme that can't be documented as being used by an oil company.

Use cheap paint, add in some orange peel and now you have a real restoration. And you better not use ANY reproduction parts if you want a 'real restoration'.

My point is obvious, where you draw the line as to what constitutes a 'real restoration' is in the eye of the beholder.

The difference to me and I would have to believe most of the collectors out there, comes down to two things. The difference in a couple hundred pounds that you have to move around and a good back.

i think that there are some pumps that you may want to save all of the parts or guts.maybe in a very rare or had to find pump.. if i have something special,then i would def save all parts and restore that way.but in a more common pump i think the smell,weight reasoning would be a better idea.would i gut a wayne 60 showcase?no!(and mark i am not singling your pump out,just an example)but a tokeheim 39 or even a regular 60 yes i would.but i would probably put those parts in a place and hold on to them for a bit. just my 2 cents

I agree with you Chad. Why lug the extra weight around when you are moving it. I also agree with you Mick. If it is a rare pump save the guts or take them apart "outside" & clean them,paint them & put back in the pump. Or stash them in a box & save them.

I can see very well, the points made by both sides of the discussion but the point made by Ohio Oil sums it up for me:
"where you draw the line as to what constitutes a 'real restoration' is in the eye of the beholder."
That and the fact that 99% of all pump restorations are done for the DISPLAY effect!
My restorations are so detail oriented that I wouldn't even consider doing the internals unless they were to be used or displayed! Also, I have a bad back and it kinda sways me!!!!!

Gutless.

If I were luckly enough to stumble on a real rare clock pump, say an Erie 50 Cash Recorder or a Sharemeter MA-350, I would consider keeping the guts in the pump, even though they will not be seen. Since I do not have one of these "rare" pumps, none of my clocks have guts in them. I did keep my guts for my Shotwell, only because I will be displaying the pump with the door in the lower position to show the positive stops. I would not consider keeping the guts in a computer pump. The first thing I do when I drag a pump home before I put it away is gut it. Brady

I agree with gulfiend's "taxidermy" analogy. A pump cabinet with the pump, motor, meter, and plumbing removed is a lot like a "mount."

My Wayne 511 came to me with no guts, so I can't do anything about that. But, when I restore my Mobil Drum dispenser, the meter will remain inside. I don't see how there would be any old gasoline involved if I disassemble the meter, clean every part, and reassemble. I like Norm Huff's pumps because they start up and run. They don't smell, either.

I'm just as intrigued by the mechanical and utilitarian aspect of the pump as I am by the styling of the cabinet. And no base/clear paint or fantasy paint schemes for me. To "restore" implies that the item actually WAS like that in the past. A pump cabinet with a fantasy logo or paint scheme is a "customized" pump to me, not a "restored" one. And that's fine - just not my gig.

In short, I don't have a problem at all with what people do with their own pumps or pump cabinets. I choose to keep mine as pumps when possible, not just pump cabinets.

Wes

gutless--and save on shipping

Wes,
If there is no liquid being pumped, your only listening to the motor run.

One reason I like my pumps gutted is I use them to store things in. Only the ones with hinged doors or easy lift off doors.

I'm a gutless turd.

no guts for me...
Wes...I guess your restorations will be with a paint brush.
to each his own....thats why ice cream comes in different flavors.

Paddy,

No paintbrush required so far... The Wayne 511s came right from the factory with Sunoco paint jobs. So, that one will be single-stage sprayed-on paint with no wet sanding. The Mobil drum pump will be the same - it's just black and stainless. Once I get a clockface to restore in Diamond, I just might use a paintbrush and some thinned-down paint.

Dick,

On Norm's pumps, you hear the motor and the pump pumping (air) as well. I believe he has a gear motor on one of them, hooked to the computer.

Wes

Gilfiend,

I notice you haven't come back with any further opinions, has any of the above swayed your opinion?

How about a comment.

Jack Sim

Gentlemen I will have to put my take in on this subject. Has a machinest for over 50 yrs. and a pump mechanic and machinest in a refinery for almost 30 yrs. most people would not have the skills to bring a pump back up to specifications to make it operate right. Plus they would not have the tools or the money to pay somebody else to do it. You get them clean enough and you can get the smell out of them. Believe me and I've worked on sewer pumps, acid pumps. diesel pumps and gasoline pumps. One problem is if you run them dry sooner or later they will tie up. They have to have liquid in them to operate. One of the reasons that these old pumps were scraped out were because the pumps in them were shot and wouldn't operate right. My vote is take the guts out of them. Paint the shell make them pretty and put them in house. Just like me they have worked 50yrs. its time to retire and let the young bucks take over. Mitch

I leave alot of the motors in if they are free and use the on/off mechanism to run them. That gives it the old pump patina that alot of people like. I agree with Brady, very rare and I may consider leaving them.

This sure got the blood circulating in a few!!! My question is when one goes to sell them does the price go up or down with "the guts" (not that I'm selling one or would ever throw anything away) This is also debated til the cows come home and then some in the old car hobby. Well I come up a way to stay out of it ... it's your car you do what you want, from rat rods to aaca seniors each owner is a car person. They are enjoying / expressing themselves with their cars, good for them! Take care! tt

I agree with Brady. If it's rare or somehow unique to the pump I'd consider leaving them in. Run of the mill computer pumps? Get that nasty heavy junk out of there. One thing to keep in mind, a lot of these computer pumps that ended up out on farms do not have their original guts in them. They have probably been reconditioned one to several times by jobbers, often with mix and match parts scavenged from a boneyard to make it work. I've gotten a few pumps with some interesting setups inside that were definitely "professionally" jerry-rigged. Some pumps still have their factory original stuff in them but if I was a betting man I'd guess there's a lot of them out there that wouldn't be "original" even if you kept the guts that came with the pump in them.

Well said!

Enjoyed reading all the comments/opinions. I take it most are like me and did/do not care for the extra weight, smell,... so guts are removed. Still wish I saved the innards, if I decided someday to fix it all up and get it back in working order. Not to pump gas, just for your/my viewing pleasure. I've seen a working visible before and thought it'd be nice to someday have Gilmore pumps pumping colored liquid like the gas they sold.

...oh, not at all - just trying to stay off the computer for a whole day...

...you'll never convince me that any historian worth his salt would not want an historical artifact to be as original as possible (or, if it had been modified, that it be returned to original appearance/specs)...I collect Gulf oil pumps, and most of them would have come from the factory with a nice GOC spec paint scheme, no brush marks...but what I don't understand is the 'if the pump's rare, I'll leave them in' argument...ALL pumps are getting rarer every day...it's as if there's an asumption being made that, 'well, the pump's common - someone SOMEWHERE has one of these with the guts', so I'm not going to worry about it...



...'most people' ain't a reason to do anything...'most people' don't try to make the paint scheme anywhere near authentic...'most people' think the overrestored stuff at Barrett-Jackson is the ideal...

...'most people' think gas pumps are junk...

...my 'proof' is that if 'most people' gut their pumps and paint them in garish paint schemes - either to please 'most people' or they just don't get the whole historical aspect of the hobby - then there will be fewer extant complete pumps...that's just math...



...my comment pertained to restored cars in museums...they aren't run because that was their intended purpose, it's part of their maintenance...

...again - soda fountain collectors as a rule don't use their dispensers...but they want them in working order...

...and why are you guys moving your pumps around so much?...they're not light with the guts out...seems like once it's restored, you plug the thing in, light it up and open a beer...and leave it there...if you have to move them around constantly my advice is to bolt them to a dolly...

...you know - there are reproduction pumps out there, that are really light...they're a lot cheaper and easier to find...they don't even have a computer (since you wouldn't be using it anyway)...and they never had gas in them, so they won't ever smell like gas...

Paddy--Thats a pretty neat photo! Wonder what kind of delivery rate they got from that one!

I display my pumps in two ways;either gutted and restored as correctaly as possible or as unrestored and in "as found",not necessarily origanal,condition.I do that because I prefer the clean,uncluttered,painted and polished presentation that a gutted pump will provide while also appreciating the appeal that an unrestored,unmolested pump that shows "how they did it"can provide.I do that because my display facility is open to the public and I want to promote our hobby by appealing to different interests by showing them that anything works if they are happy with it. Just my preferences and thoughts after years of showing my collection to the general public. If I'm going to restore it,I'll gut it. But in some cases I won't restore it and display it as found to tell the story of how it was.

I will Definately disagree that pumps are getting rarer every day, they are actually getting found and restored now more than ever, I don't know of anyone that is destroying pumps to make them rare. Tokhiem 39's, Wayne 60's, M&S 80's, etc. will NEVER be rare pumps, there will be more of them around in collections in 10 years than there are now as more are discovered and restored.

I said most people in our hobby, not generically. Obviously most in this hobby do not think gas pumps are junk.

Out of all the cars restored nationally in the last ten years how many do you think wind up in museums?? A VERY SMALL percentage. You want to meticulously restore a car to put it in a museum to preserve a slice of American culture?? That's great. The same can be said for a gas pump, you want to preserve it to accurate historical standards for museum quality?? That's wonderful.

With the deepest respect please don't try to convince me my Tokheim 39s, MS 80's, and National A38's are ruining a slice of Americana because I didn't keep the guts in them. And quite humbly I submit, that most people in our hobby are not going to give me more money for them when I resell them because I dropped extra cash on the resto to keep the heavy motors in.

I agree with KZ100.Rare pumps?Not really with Ebay and this site sitting here;Rare?Simply a function of money.I'll refer to my earlier post in which the word "rare"was never used.I have some common pumps and some uncommon ones.The "rarity"of a pump never enters my mind when I'm deciding whrther or not to gut and restore it.My decision is made depending on how I plan to work the pump into my display layout,which is open to the public. Works for me;may not for you. As always:Do as you wish!

KEEP IT CIVIL, NOT PERSONAL.

Well, this subject has gotten some attention, more attention honestly than I thought it would. It is and always has been up to the owner of a pump as to whether a pump is as complete as found, gutted or missing parts added. Like some here, I worked in a station during the 60's (db, helped Fred Flintstone pump gas at the first "Sinclair" station). Not one of the pumps had all of it's original equiptment after 3-5 years. Motors burned up, doors were beat to ... well beat up pretty bad, nozzles kicked from here to there or slammed into their "respected holders". And it wasn't always my fault,.... no matter what you have heard.... the "new guy" always gets all the blame. We painted using extra paint, using rattlecans and brushes. Those pumps had to weigh at least 50#s more at the end of their lives than brand new because of all the extra paint "poured" on them. Seeing photos of "found" pumps shared here, the places I worked for weren't the only ones trying to "stretch" the life of a pump by using "bailing wire and spit". Hopefully we can all enjoy all pumps; Whether custom, fantasy, semi-custom, restored, semi-restored and my personal fav the unrestored. We saved a pump from Thunder or his rightful name; Mr Junkman, Sanitary Engineer, Mr. Stinky..... LOL (Pick on me when I'm sick will ya)
Just enjoy our hobby and keep those pumps out of Jeff's hands.

Bowser--I don't think anyone has gotten too personal here. This has been a very interesting discussion on both side of the fence for a lot of varied reasons! Very healthy discussion that certainly makes me examine my own motives when I next restore another pump! I try to do about 2 per year and I have a backlog of about 10!!
I always gut the pumps out for a lot of personal reasons but given the next time that I do a historically correct pump,,,,,,, I just may weigh in on the side of the opposition!
I imagine that the work load would increase dramatically, but sometime we are driven by financial reasons and time constraints rather than the historical significance of the task about to be undertaken! Its always good to have a conversation that drives us to examine our own motives!!

Of course you dont... Its not your name, that Bob Richards, has drug through the mud!!!! LOL

Bob, I'm glad that you're back to your nomal self....

As for my opinion, (as if you have all waited for this) 36B & Wayne 60 is the line. Anything more, should be kept complete.

As for cars, it was once thought that changing the wheels, would not affect the value. Again, in my opinion, there is a line to be drawn. Certainly, a Boss 302, is deserving of its original wheels.

This topic will be highly charged with personal opinions. I'm sorry that I didn't involved sooner....

this is a topic that could never be resolved........ I really don't think it matters and in 25 years from now all the values, practices, herniated disks, and opinions will still always be the same - unchanged and unresolved.

Yep, I agree.
2 years after Jack did the 2nd pump book he still get's complaints cause there are No Foreign pumps in the book.
& Bob Richards had a Supercharger installed in his Mud Buggy !

I have restored a lot of pumps – most of them I have gutted.

Now, the last two pumps I have restored the guts were left in them. The first was a t-39 that was New Old Stock and was never used – it sits in my living room with all the workings in it. The second is that Bennett 756 I just finished – it too has the guts in it.

What I have just come to conclude:

If the pump is complete and has not been messed with inside and has all its original parts – and they are in working order – keep them in it, sand blast, and paint. If not gut them.

I NEVER used B-3C for paint, only enamel because that is close to original. I have started using correct colors and paint schemes and correct SIZE globes originals if I can afford it. I have been extremely happy with my latest pumps that are set up original and have their parts inside. I mean really how often do you move the pumps around? Really – you don’t.

I have two Wayne 60’s that are next – one is complete and the other has been modified on the inside. I will be doing these as a SET in Tioga and Tioga Ethel. Because one has been modified on the inside and these will be a set I will go ahead and strip the guts. I will not be putting the showcase items on them because that is not original. I am still looking for the correct color scheme for Tioga and if I can find it I will proceed with the restorations.


AGAIN:
If they are original on the inside, work or can be made to work again, and the insides are in good working order – keep the guts - if not because they were either messed with, or freeze cracked/destroyed - or modified with new or non-original pumps / parts then pull them out.

Travis
Topeka, Kansas

DO AS YOU PLEASE -- Don't be steered by anyone . I keep the guts in certain pumps because I like the way they are built- most others are gutted. "I move my pumps all the time" I like to buy, sell, trade, restore, and just go out to the shop and look around. I re-arange here and there. Heck if I leave a pump in one position too long the darn rats get in there and make a home. I am planning on taking an original pump that still runs and mounting it on a small portable tank only big enough to fit under the pump on wheels. This is a Bennett 646 that came out of a barn still pumping . The small tank will have a clear see through filler tube so one will be able to watch the mineral spirits flow both through the siteglass and fillerneck. The computer will then really function and ding. So in this case I can say it is a real live working pump . SO THERE !!!! LOL Every other 646 that I own (about 10) is or will be GUTTED .

Anyway this is my two cents worth.
Take care and GUT AWAY or NOT it is up to you ,
Rob

I have no pumps so this thread is pretty easy for me to just kind of watch impartially.

I must say for a man pretty much on his own here I admire your conviction in the face of such overwhelming majority, Mark.

But if there is one thing I have pulled from this, it would seem that most people are "swayed" by the "most people" argument. I have to wonder, if all of a sudden there was this movement toward correct and complete (and this a hypothetical of course) and restoration of pumps for the preservation of historical authenticity (especially if prices moved accordingly)......how many people would all of a sudden start changing their views because of the "most people" argument.....that's what everyone else is doing!
It's easy to fall in line, especially if the arguments work to our advantage, but to do what YOU REALLY WANT is a quality of leaders and trend setters. I can see the arguments for both sides of the fence and I really take no position either way, I just thought it interesting to notice "the band wagon" effect at work.

EXACTLY...

...'having no pumps' certainly hasn't kept others out of the discussion...what you call 'conviction' surely others who disagree with my position would call 'pigheadedness'...

...I enjoy healthy debate...but statements like 'pumps aren't getting rarer' aren't logical and therefore aren't going to do anything to change my mind...they're not being made anymore - and today, somewhere, at least one perfectly good old gas pump was scrapped - ergo, they're becoming more rare...the declining number of unmolested pumps left in relation to the increasing number of collectors means they would be harder to find...math doesn't lie...if they were common they'd be a helluva lot cheaper than they are...

...and if you have rats where you display your restored pumps...

...Dave, of course everyone would 'follow the crowd' (remember the Macarena?) ...they wouldn't want to see the value of their collections suffer in relation to the historically accurate, complete pumps...what gets me is how defensive the 'gutless' crowd is...it's as if they're worried that any discussion about the topic threatens their investment...also, not only in this post, but any topic where personal taste or method of 'restoration' is discussed, how they keep chirping "it's up to you" - I never said it wasn't...and it's a rather meaningless phrase, and doesn't make you right or further your cause...using that rationale, you could justify anything: you could paint your pumps with marmalade, curb your dog on them, or stack them like cordwood and sleep on them - it's up to you!

Gulfiend Quote "what gets me is how defensive the 'gutless' crowd is..."

Is that it or is it that they don't agree with YOU that angers you so much

...???

...dude, I'm not angry!...you mistake passion for anger...I just feel strongly about this...

...I've thought about this stuff a LOT...years of seeing pump faces/globe faces reproduced with poorly chosen fonts in place of the original lettering (due to either pure laziness, or insensitivity to design), and comically garish pump restorations - some with pump signs/decals from different companies used on the same pump(!) - have led me to the conclusion that the hobby has grown enough where it's time to establish some standards...otherwise the terms we use can mean anything, and as a result they mean nothing...there's serious money being thrown around now...playtime is over...we're not a bunch of pimply-faced kids scraping up enough paper route money to piece a jalopy hot rod together, so we can drive to high school...all restorations are NOT created equal...this isn't teeball where everyone gets a trophy...

...I honestly don't care if anyone agrees with me or not - to this point not one reply on 'the other side' has offered anything to advance their position...what kills me is the 'gutless' crowd continually falls back to the 'it's your pump, do what you want' thing...that's a cop-out, and offers nothing to further the debate...

...please, give me examples of any other historical pursuit where 'I don't care what it looked like in it's heyday - it's my _____ and I'll do what I want' is the motto...

Getting everyone to switch to 1 kind of Beer might be easier!

Hey guys,its a hobby;supposed to be for the fun of it.Are we having fun yet? Different people have different objrctives within the hobby but in my opion all are members of the hobby and should be treated with respect.

Gulfiend, I understand your point. And to relate to that, I was involved in an Airplane restoration for the Smithsonian. Their specifications stated that ALL parts, are to be made to working condition, from the same materials as the original, and marked "REPRODUCTION". For example, if a hydraulic cylinder was built with a leather seal, a steel cylinder, and a brass piston, thats exactly how we hade to reproduce it.

Your passion for authenticity is respectable, however, a substantial portion of restored pumps wind up inside the house or other places commonly visited by people. Thats probably where the "gut it to get rid of the smell" mentality comes from. And that seems to be the commonly accepted way to display your/our gas pumps. It also seems that gas pumps ARE the only things restored in this manner.

Mark, You and I are friends and I applaud your passion. Having restored a few pumps myself, it is my personal preferance to gut them. Does it lower the current or future value...who really knowns? If I could be sure of the future, maybe I wouldn't have lost so much in the stock market???? What I'd like to point out is that a lot has been discussed concerning this subject and I personally feel that there will be no clear rules set forth....Why not do what ever you want and quit overthinking it? As always, my opinion is only worth what you paid for it! Best regards, Paul

gulfiend: I appreciate your passion and you certainly are entitled to your opinion and they are certainly welcome here.

For me it's simple, I'm not restoring MY pumps for any historical significance or pursuit. I'm restoring them for the pursuit of my happiness and contentment.

If in your book that makes me a bad hobbyist then I'm okay with that.

Hi guys, I'm pretty new here, but thought I would through in a little something to this topic. I haven't started on any of my pumps yet, but had been planning on gutting all of mine for restoration. But I may give it a second thought after reading this. I don't know, I guss I lean more toward gutting, but it seems like having the guts makes the pump somewhat more authentic. My question is, and I'm still nieve to a lot in this hobby, but can't you pretty much buy everything repo for a Wayne 60? Well, maybe everything but the veeder root. So how does that effect the future value of my original Wayne 60's as more and more repo parts are being made for these pumps? Or is it easy to tell the difference between the repo parts compared to the original Wayne parts? That's something I have wondered about recently, and now that I have found this site, hopefully you guys can give me some insight. The reason I ask, is if having the guts still intact, maybe that would make the pump more authentic. What are your thoughts? Hopefully I haven't got too far off subject and hijacked the post. If I have, I apoligize in advance.

I have been biting my tongue, for most of today and I'm done. Pumps were used...HARD. I bet most of them had/have parts that weren't on the "build sheets". Parts were expensive, the operator used whatever he could to ensure the pump worked, including bailing wire, cardboard and tape. This included using parts from other manufacturers' pumps. A true "shadetree mechanic" would use parts that no pump manufacturer would have ever used. They used paint brushes to paint the pump when the door dings, paint removal by the hose rubbing on the side and the occasional "poor" driver inflicted on the pump, got real bad. Plus the damage weather and the service station/gas station attendant did to them. "Historical value"? They had so much value that up until the late 70's they were crushed and used as "fill" in station driveways. No one knows what the future will bring, in the way of prices. No one knows right now if prices reflect a difference based on whether a pump has it's "guts" or not. It isn't a "cop out" to say it is up to the owner to do what they want with their pump, it is reality.

There was talk of "Standards", who will set these standards? Anyone here have that knowledge and expertise? Jack, db and others here, with much more knowledge than I will ever have, aren't too proud to say that they learn new things about pumps, all the time.

If someone doesn't want to follow said standards, what would happen to them? Kick in their doors in the "dead of night" and take their pump(s), because they want to own THEIR PUMP ... THEIR WAY?

Ofcourse not, so why worry about everyone doing everything the same? Instead, how about everyone worry only about your own pumps and let everyone else worry about theirs?

amen!!!

I second that. Well said, Bob.

I recently found a Sunoco Wayne 511 blender that I wanted to bring into the house,as well as have it complete to the year it was last inspected..1970.I took the guts out and slowly rinsed them out with bleach & solvents and let them air dry for nearly a year..I then installed the parts slowly and securely,thank god I could document the parts before removing with a digital camera.
Today I have the pump in my living room,and there is no hint of a gas smell.The majority of the gas smell came from the original fuel filters,so I leave them in the garage.
Not once did I repaint it anywhere,nor use any repoped parts.I also found an original DX gas grade chart dated 1960-67 in it's original frame.
I feel fortunate & happy to have it this way,but do understand why so many don't have their original plumbing today.
I respect it more & more now with the understanding of it's original intent.
Put me down for wanting a pump with it's guts still intact.
Rick





Here it is today,both sides fully loaded,detailed,cleaned & complete.

More..








Vintage lock & key too..