Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion Guts or Gutless...

...I'm starting a new topic, as it was never my intention to hijack Mark's topic about his Wayne 60 showcase:

http://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=153164

...but I would like to keep this discussion alive...I think it's healthy for the hobby...so here goes:



...there are lots of restored cars in museums that aren't driven...

...there are lots of heavy Coke machines and fountain dispensers in collections that aren't used, but aren't gutted...

...I'm trying to think of another hobby that discards the mechanics of what they're collecting...and taxidermy or conchology (the study of sea shells) are the only two things that come to mind other than gas pumps...I'm all ears if anyone can think of another...

...you don't restore the guts to use the pump again, you restore them because you're restoring the pump and the guts are part of it...

...I only brought it up as it seems Mark has a rare pump, that is only distinguishable from more common converted pumps by the pump...yes, KW's photos show many details that distinguish the true showcases from the converted ones...I think it's valuable to show HOW the pump company redesigned the guts to a small area to allow for a display case...something that's totally lost when such a pump is gutless...you can point here and there and show where something USED to be, but it's not the same thing...

...the term 'pump police' is often used...it's a cute term and does what it's intended to do, distract from the issue at hand by ridiculing the opposing view with hyperbole...but, like antique and collectible cars (which are inarguably linked to gas pumps, collectible-wise) the more authentic a restoration, the more historically valuable the pump is, the more it will be worth in the long run...which brings me back to Gilmore's reply:



...hopefully he will be able to find one that hasn't been gutted...

Good idea gulfiend as I would like to hear/read others' opinions. Rarely do threads stay on topic but always nice NOT to hijack anothers thread. Didn't mean to attack you, just don't understand that argument.

I have not went to every car museum but ones I have, I have rarely seen a vehicle restored without an engine or one that there is no intent on installing one. Usually, when I ask about the "restored" vehicle I am told the engine is intact, maintained and run at least once a year.

I see pumps with or without guts sell for the same price range. I have always believed/been told it is buyer preference. Some care, some do not. Some prefer the old paint, patina and believe repainting the pump is sacrilegious. Some people have skills and can paint and some can't, thus ruining the look of a pump.

Other hobbys that have innards removed are; appliances such as old fridges and stoves, cast iron parlor stoves,...

I think the situation is more "What are you going to do with the pump after the restoration?" If the pump is to be displayed in a garage or outside a garage, leaving the guts in the pump would be appropriate, but if the pump is to be displayed in a family room or a restaurent, the guts should be removed.

Having taken many pumps apart I know there is old gasoline inside the pump and the meter, what is your suggestion on getting rid of this bad smelling gasoline if you are not gutting the pump?

Jack Sim

Honestly, I have no idea how you could prove such an assertion. It's undeniable, MOST people in our hobby prefer the guts to be removed. The value of a pump is equal to what most people are willing to pay for it.

And...comparing cars to pumps is like comparing apples and oranges. Restored cars for the most part can be used for their original intent. Restored pumps cannot, the EPA has a pretty big problem with folks putting underground storeage tanks on their property, filling them up with gas and using their 'restored pump'

WELL SAID, Ohio Oil

THANKS AGAIN ON THE INPUT ON THE SHOWCASE WAYNE 60.I HAVE RESTORED MANY PUMPS OVER THE YEARS AND HAVE GUTTED 90%OF THE ELECTRIC PUMPS I HAVE RESTORED.THE VISIBLE PUMPS I HAVE DONE I ALWAYS LEAVE INTACT TO REPLACE THE PUMP HANDLE.WITH THIS PARTICULAR WAYNE 60 BEING AN ORIGINAL? SHOWCASE DISPLAY PUMP I WILL LEAVE THE INSIDES INTACT JUST BECAUSE THE LOWER PUMP MECHANISM IS UNIQUE TO THE SHOWCASE PUMP FROM WHAT I CAN GATHER FROM EVERYONE'S INPUT.NOT JUST ANOTHER MADE UP DISPLAY MODEL.I AGREE 100% WITH GULFIENDS OPINION ON THIS ONE AND APPRECIATE THE SUGGESTION.THANKS AGAIN.MARK

How many of the hanging jet aircraft @ the Smithsonian Air Museum still have the engines intact ?
Ronald Reagan's Presidential Helo. & Plane are not intact as used when in service, @ his library.

Does Museum Quality include: 1gal of Bondo, Reproduction parts, plating, pin striping, clear coating, Fantasy Oil Companies?

Less than 1% of collectors care if the GUTS are in Electric Gas Pumps.

It takes GUTS to make a real "RESTORATION",
In all actuality it should be in working order to truely be restored.
But hey.....
It's yours do what you want.
BUT,,,, if there are wasp nests in your computer and the insides are still rusted, DON'T CALL IT RESTORED !!!!!
And most if not ALL cabinet parts that are brass were plated at one time.!!!!!!!
even the UL tags.

And....if you want a 'real restoration' better put away the clear coats, high end glossy paint, and any paint scheme that can't be documented as being used by an oil company.

Use cheap paint, add in some orange peel and now you have a real restoration. And you better not use ANY reproduction parts if you want a 'real restoration'.

My point is obvious, where you draw the line as to what constitutes a 'real restoration' is in the eye of the beholder.

The difference to me and I would have to believe most of the collectors out there, comes down to two things. The difference in a couple hundred pounds that you have to move around and a good back.

i think that there are some pumps that you may want to save all of the parts or guts.maybe in a very rare or had to find pump.. if i have something special,then i would def save all parts and restore that way.but in a more common pump i think the smell,weight reasoning would be a better idea.would i gut a wayne 60 showcase?no!(and mark i am not singling your pump out,just an example)but a tokeheim 39 or even a regular 60 yes i would.but i would probably put those parts in a place and hold on to them for a bit. just my 2 cents

I agree with you Chad. Why lug the extra weight around when you are moving it. I also agree with you Mick. If it is a rare pump save the guts or take them apart "outside" & clean them,paint them & put back in the pump. Or stash them in a box & save them.

I can see very well, the points made by both sides of the discussion but the point made by Ohio Oil sums it up for me:
"where you draw the line as to what constitutes a 'real restoration' is in the eye of the beholder."
That and the fact that 99% of all pump restorations are done for the DISPLAY effect!
My restorations are so detail oriented that I wouldn't even consider doing the internals unless they were to be used or displayed! Also, I have a bad back and it kinda sways me!!!!!

Gutless.

If I were luckly enough to stumble on a real rare clock pump, say an Erie 50 Cash Recorder or a Sharemeter MA-350, I would consider keeping the guts in the pump, even though they will not be seen. Since I do not have one of these "rare" pumps, none of my clocks have guts in them. I did keep my guts for my Shotwell, only because I will be displaying the pump with the door in the lower position to show the positive stops. I would not consider keeping the guts in a computer pump. The first thing I do when I drag a pump home before I put it away is gut it. Brady