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Item 280133605277. Here we go again...it really has gotten much worse the last couple few years.

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Looking for nice quarts and pump signs, thanks.

HA HA HA, Again already.


Larry

$37,100 Wasn't enough last time.
NO Feedback left for it either.

Hey everyone, I was wondering how do you actually go about reporting these frauds? I clicked the report this auction and all it does is take me to a question and answer page. Do you have to email ebay about it? We should get as many people as we can reporting these people! It is the same name from the last time they just changed it. This sort of thing just angers me to no end.

Did anyone notice that the seller answered questions in the auction that it's a fraud and he didn't list the sign? The seller must have been fooled by a "phishing" email and gave up his password. That's the only way an account can be hijacked. However, apparently he can't seem to contact eBay to kill the auction and safeguard his account. I must say that eBay makes it a very difficult process. In addition, we've all seen that sometimes eBay doesn't even act on reports of fraud.

You guys might be right......

I got ticked off and send the guy a nasty email through eBay.

Here is his response........


Response from bakaro68
bakaro68( 50)
Positive feedback: 100%
Member since: Jan-06-05
Location: IA, United States
Registered on: www.ebay.com


Item: Old Westland Service Porcelain Neon Gas Sign w/ Buffalo (280133605277)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
bakaro68 is the seller.



THANK YOU FOR REPORTING ME, NOW MAYBE SOMETHING WILL BE DONE BY EBAY...I CONTACTED THEM AND TOLD THEM THIS WAS A SCAM, AND I DID NOT LIST THIS ITEM.

Perhaps this guy was hijacked.....not sure, but thought I would share the feedback I got from this person...

Mac

GOOD DAY! (Even w/the bad PLAYERS such as this Westland BADIT)
Here's a thought not for sure if it's a known fact or just happened around the same time....HECK, it is fact cause it's only happen twice to me in 7 yrs. Both times it happened I had commented on a picture bandit stealing someones pics of signs.
My password had been hi-jacked & I had to change it. It happened w/this sign after I wrote "IT" a nasty letter. This might be a thought for others "If you write an email to these types of BANDITS CHANGE your password????
Just my thought not a proven fact

I'm paranoid by nature.....just changed my eBay password....good advice Indigasman!

Thanks for the info. I do wonder if this guy is a victim....either way....I don't want to be one...this is the kind of stuff that makes me hate eBay.

Mac

There's a couple more questionable Chevrolet signs on ebay now. There is a neon OK sign, the seller has been a member since 2005, but has zero feedback. Also, a 36" (?, I thought they were 42") Chevrolet Super Service sign from a guy with very low feedback. This one could be legit I guess but I am very leery.

Since the guy that got his ID hijacked is aware of the scam, why can't he just end the auction?

Re: "Since the guy that got his ID hijacked is aware of the scam, why can't he just end the auction?"

Most likely the person who hijacked the seller's eBay account through a "phishing" email subsequently CHANGED his password!! Therefore, he may be unable to kill the auction but can still answer emails. In my opinion, this whole deal doesn't quite add up. If it was my account, I'd CALL eBay on the phone to get it all straightened out ASAP.

I was the high bidder on the last time he had this this sign up for sale last week. I bid 100000.00 grand just so he wouldn't screw some someone else. i used a e-bay accont that my wife has and never uses, he wouldn't let me pick up the sign. he said had to ship it, and wanted a wire transfer of funds

[This message has been edited by mobil100 (edited 07-12-2007).]

This person could be a victim this round. I was selling gas-n -oil a few yrs. back & one day my site was hi-jacked. Had a $$Camera on it that I wasn't selling & didn't put there. Talked w/ebay & they could see I didn't sell that type of stuff & pulled it. Opps, that was the first time hi-jacked 3 times all together.

Ebays ALL about staying alert!
Knowing before you buy (to the best of a good gas-n-oil site like this one).Asking questions- letting others know your thoughts even if we might be wrong.
HERE"S another thing I've learned that I only know cause it's happened time in time out w/our fellow gas/oil guys: Buy a large item $$$-----go pick it up as soon as you can or ask for help here. These nuts are getting emails after sales & they're resaling these items.
****oh, bidding on private bid sells is the worst!!! If they can't at least show the winner at the end ....why should you trust that they're not a "BANDIT too.
After all this I still like using ebay even though these bandits have slowed my bidding down these days. Due to having to watch the items closer.

good job Mobil 100........

Pablo, i thought if somebody hijacked your account & changed your password, you can still answer the secret question for "forgotton password" & reset it, as you still do retain your email address.......something is odd here; is this the same seller as last time ??

I wrote to eBay last night fully explaining the story on this fraud auction. It's gone this morning!!

Pablo, you should send e-bay a huge bill for acting as their auction police.

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ROD [Mich.]

way to go Pablo....you should actually send ebay a class action lawsuit on behalf of the many people who have been screwed because ebay does not respond to these complaints most of the time, this case was so aggregious, obvious, and probably recieved many emails regarding it .... i am starting to believe they could care less just as long as they get their percentage....

mobil100 - Ethically speaking, your act of submitting a false quote for "$100,000.00", in which you have no intention of following through on the transaction, is no more legitimate than the seller's actions.

There are plenty of ways in which to bring this matter to the attention of ebay and potential buyers.

Chadhaas,

Desperate means require desperate measures. I wouldn't pass judgment on someone (mobil100) who knows that a fraud is being committed. The greater risk is someone being taken by an unscrupulous dirbag who hacks a ligitimate seller and tries to sell merchandise that he doesn't have--- because no one took action to stop the madness.

Lighten up. Nobody asked for the "ethics" police to step in. The fraud was stopped in his tracks....assuming that the eBay member was hacked and fell victim to the scum that pulls these types of cons, he too should be thankful for people like mobil100. I find no fault with him for stepping up. He saved at least a couple of people money and their eBay reputation. If you'd been hacked by someone and they were selling something under your eBay identity, you'd be thanking mobil100 instead of finding fault in this "ethically questionable" actions. He did the right thing and if anyone disagrees on this, they need their head examined.


Mac

[This message has been edited by Mac (edited 07-13-2007).]

[This message has been edited by Mac (edited 07-13-2007).]

to-chadhaas: Ethically speaking you are correct, but e-bay did nothing, I could go on and on, but that turns in to one of those debates, that sometimes gets out of hand on this site. thank you Mac for your comments

chadhaas,.....do you have any suggestions on how to stop this fraud ?? Have you personnally tried ?? I give mobil100 kudos for DOING something.....read the last posts, ebay does almost nothing to stop this......I know what you're trying to say, 2 wrong frauds don't make a right, however in this case the second wrong may have saved a totally ignorant innocent victim $37,000 without hurting a sole..... so i would not call what mobil100 did wrong, i'd call it more like a guy with some balls who decided to step up & do something himself.....i could come up with 100's of analagies...., i seen a bank robbery & somebody was killed, do i follow this killer in my car when he speeds away from the bank or is that stalking him ?? can i break the speed limit when i follow him to get his license plate #, or i am breaking the law ??....... We need these kinds of people to make difficult decisions to make change, not somebody who does not want to get involved......


[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-13-2007).]

If the moral of the story here is that it is OK to commit a crime to prevent a crime, then I don't have much more to say about this topic.

In this jurisdiction,

Imaginary bids

on Imaginary items,

is NOT, I repeat NOT an indictable offense..

Now everyone can sleep.....

i am sure glad all of us are not "holier than thou"........keep up the good work with these rip-off artists.....

chadhaas--tell us the many ways to bring this problem to the attention of others and ebay as you stated.
Bob

Dodogas..... I like your reply
Imaginary bids, on Imaginary items,
Is NOT an indictable offense..

[This message has been edited by mobil100 (edited 07-14-2007).]

unfortunately it is not an imaginary bid, however the product is imaginary

I always thought this forum was a discussion site for all points of view. To belittle someone because they don't hold the same point of view as someone else. STUPID!!!!!!!!! The question was brought up "can one break the law to help stop someone else who has broken the law". According to the courts NO, especially in this age of cell phones. If you chase someone, lets say a bank robber and you cause an accident you are charged in the accident, not the bank robber. This has happened in a number of states and to a varity of people including off-duty police officers. I understand the frustration with ebay where it comes to ebay scams. I have been burned myself and have reported a number of auctions and at times nothing seems to have been done. To make a fraudlent bid one better be positive that the auction item is not real, either that or better have a great attorney on retainer. All it will take is one $100,000.00 mistake on an item that is real and one has lost everything. And before we hear "I would know its a fake", look back at the posts where there has been a question on if an item is original. We partake in a hobby that is based on items manufactured in the past, not the recent past. I have never met a person who is 100% sure of anything. Jack, has written a great book and is doing a revision to it with added material. I have read here where he has pointed out that someone has come up with an item he hadn't seen before. So how about taking a step back and let anyone have their say without ridicule? At times I have been guilty of this, didn't make it right then and doesn't make it right now.

get real, i will take my chances getting a license plate number of a murdering bank robber & i may even have to break the speed limit to do it, however if safety becomes an issue i will back off..... the law breaking speeder would be on a pedastal at a press confrence as a hero & the courts would give a commendation of courage.......every state has these types of situations where people take the law into their own hands & are commended for it........yes we do have our own opinions & I for one will stand up for the rights of the PEOPLE , not some dirtbag rip-off.........oh, poor rip off had a schill bid put on his fraud item & his rights were violated ?? is that your stance ??........By the way some of us KNOW the auction was a scam & you should get filled in on all the facts, the sign is real, the picture is stolen..... ebay finally pulled it.........i have not seen any other posts where somebody called the people on this forum or their opinions STUPID!!!!!!!!, except one......




[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-14-2007).]

Roadrelic, I honestly hope you never get the chance to live out your fantasy. If by some stretch of imagination you do get the opportunity, I hope someone doesn't lose their life or their loved one's lives by making a legal turn or pass while you are playing avenger.

I don't know how to edit or I would edit my last post, sorry about that. I didn't say anyones opinions were stupid, only the people who belittle those with a differing opinion are stupid. Some of your comments are way out there, atleast to me. Again, my opinion. What would have happened if the auction was legit, an item you and others hadn't seen before? As I said before, I have never met anyone who was 100% sure of anything.

WOW now we have sunken to thye level of name calling...........Bob.. first you say opionions are not stupid but people who belittle other people are stupid ?then my comments are way out there ??...... Than you called the ANOLOGY i made a "fantasy by playing avenger" & you hope i can't fullfill it because i could take a life of a loved one ?? how dramatic..... Bob you had better read what you write & should be very careful on some of your opionions, i probably dislike your opionions more than you dislike mine, however i won't try & belittle you by calling names like , avenger, stupid, way out there
.......i will say it for the 3rd or 4th time , the auction was NOT legit, some of us reconized the stolen picture which you probably have not seen, ebay has removed it, etc. etc. & 99.9% is acceptable...........$37,000 is what some of these big nuts courageous people saved somebody Bob..apparently you could care less as even you have been ripped off on ebay.........Thats ROADRELICS



[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-14-2007).]

TIME OUT--EVERYONE NEEDS ANOTHER COLD ONE or SO

DING DING DING

Bob Richards is absolutely correct.

Placing a false bid is auction tampering. When a bidder places a bid on eBay they are agreeing to eBay's terms and conditions. This is a legal contract between the bidder and eBay. If you fail to follow through with the transaction the law views this matter clear and plain. Ebay defines auction tampering as buyer fraud and a breach of contract. Here is how they define it: "Someone (buyer) who wins a seller's auctions (whether using the Buy It Now button or by bidding very high amounts) with no intention of ever paying for any of them" ... "sometimes acting through sham accounts so as not to be caught".

Now, everyone in this forum understands that this was not the buyers intent, that is clear. However, no matter how well intentioned, eBay, and ALL auction houses, consider this to be a very serious matter because it can set a very dangerious precedant. If this kind of vigilantism were to be allowed, chaos could ensue and it would illegitimize their business.

Let me give you an example of a similar situation that many people can relate. Let's say that you have first hand knowledge that a vehicle has not been described accurate, say a Pontiac LeMans has been expertly converted and sold as a GTO. If you go to Barrett-Jackson, bid on this car and do not follow through with the transaction they will remove you from the property and ban you from bidding ever again. Auction companies simply cannot allow a bidder to bid an obscene amount of money and then fail to follow through with the transaction because they feel the item or seller is illegitimate.

No matter how well intentioned, why would you place yourself in the vulnerable position of having to defend yourself? If it goes sideways, you risk losing a lot ... more than you ever have to gain.

[This message has been edited by chadhaas (edited 07-15-2007).]

I figure when seller REFUSED to let item be picked up by buyer, that killed the sale.
db

String me up.

ebay is not an Auction , I repeat NOT an auction!!

Whenever something goes wrong and ebay is taken to task to make things right, That is what they will always and quickly tell you.

So if you have evidence of someone not honouring their high bid call them on it.

Until then when you see someone trying to stop someone from getting screwed cuz ebay wont stop the auction, why worry about it. If the ITEM IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR AUCTION it is NOT an AUCTION.. it is a scam!! Some people are so blinded by the rules they would rather see an honest person get taken for THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS than get saved from the scam!!

Sure glad I dont have friends like that...

chadhaas............. are you sure mobil100 is legally resonsible & has to honor his bid of $37,000.00 for this fraudulent item ??...

....bummer mobil100 you had better get the check (or western union) in the mail & it will probably go to Europe...

...maybe chadhass & Bob will borrow you the money since they think "it could be real"

i guess if i was mobil100 i would have to say to the seller.,,"SUE ME" which i doubt the seller will do, however ebay may suspend this account because he didn't pay & they are not getting their percentage

you are really in a bind in mobil100

This post has gotten way off track and some have misconstued my statements. First off, can anyone here say with absolute certainty they can tell a fraudulant item 100% of the time? Ofcourse not. Dodo, according to contract laws in all countries ebay operates in, ebay auctions are binding and one can be prosecuted for not honoring an auction. Now 99.9% won't take it any further than leaving negitive feedback, because of the costs involved. In my post I talked about being absolutely positive when making a fraudulant bid on an item, as Mobil 100 said he did. What would have been the outcome if Mobile 100 had been wrong and the item had been real? If he didn't complete the auction, does anyone in their right mind think the seller wouldn't use every avenue available to get satisfaction under the law? All I said was, one had better be 100% correct. Unless I have missed it, I haven't seen too many here on Antiques Roadshow or working for Sotheby's as experts. There was a post in the last 60 days or so in regards to someone who has written books on signs(I'm not into signs) who may have been taken on an auction. If the possibility exists that an expert can be fooled... We are all adults here, do what you need to do. To all of those who say it is okay to have a "bad" bid, would you feel the same if it were your item and someone was wrong about it?

hey Bob , how do you know the guy who wrote the book on signs "got took" ??.... because somebody said it?? .......are you 100% sure???
we are not saying this sign is a fantasy, repo,real, it's a STOLEN PICTURE, have you even looked at it ?? can you tell me the 10 other signs that are in the photo ??
.........if i was you i would stick with what you know & you personnally said "i'm not into signs"...........I am into signs

http://roadrelics.com/ however the best stuff is not shown here.....

I will say 100% "its a "FRAUD" & not a lot of "what ifs"

...i also have a profile with a homepage,occupation & interests, all which you choose not to display......hope i didn't offened you with my opinion



[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-16-2007).]

Roadrelic, is it that you can't comprehend the written word or just not smart enough to quote me correctly? I said in my last post "who may have been taken on an auction". I did not say he had been taken, if you are going to quote someone atleast get the quote correct. I think you just want to muddy up the intent of the post and what I had to say. Also I didn't mention any auction in particular I was talking in generalities. A concept you don't seem to have a handle on. Have all the opinions you want, it is when you "bastardize" someone else's words, that's when there is a problem. Are you an expert on signs, if so by whose measure are you an expert? I would like to learn more about this hobby. I have a small library on "gas and oil" collecting, 5-10 books and am trying to learn more everyday. I am upfront that I don't have the knowledge to determine a fraudulant item. If you are an expert I'm sure that the site will be glad to have you give us all information on how to determine if an item is real. I know I look forward to a 100%, works everytime shortcut to spotting fraudulant items.

there we go calling names again & trying to belittle me.........I'll say it again, Thats "ROADRELICS" to you Boob.......

..if i was you, i'd keep my words to myself as you are really showing your true intelligence.........its not just me saying this, read everybodies posts on this auction, but i guess we can all stop & sleep better at night as Bob has

"The Written Word"

you talk about me not being smart enough, heck you can't even figure out how to edit your posts........its the 3rd button on the top




[This message has been edited by roadrelics@aol.com (edited 07-16-2007).]

My last word about this post. Roadrelics, to be honest I never paid any attention to your name. You belittled Chad for asking a question and voicing his opinions, you belittled me because I don't pretend to have knowledge about the hobby I enjoy. You don't answer direct questions on what qualifications you have as a "sign expert". You throw out thoughts and then hide behind them as "everybodies posts". I saw two peoples' post that mentioned me by name, Chad's and yours, Dodo's was general and not directed towards anyone in particular. As to intelligence, people will make up their own minds. I came to this site to gain knowledge on "gas and oil" items. I ask for concrete answers to help me gain worthwhile knowledge, you give slurry. Are you always sure of the authenticity of a sign, especially one you have already purchased? Ofcourse the answer is no, as your post dated 6/21/07 shows : http://www.oldgas.com/shoptalk/ubb/Forum7/HTML/003091.html As I mentioned earlier my last word on this subject. I hope I have entertained all you who have come seeking knowledge and left with only a parched throat. I wish that I could refresh you with some knowledge, but I am just a novice. As the "expert" said: "if I was you, i'd keep my words to myself as you are really showing your true intelligence". Sorry, I had to quote that section. It has been fun and being able to be a burr, under 'Mr. Peabody's" saddle, made it worthwhile atleast for me. Roadrelics, I didn't make a comment about the auction in question, I have said this over and over. Are you that far gone, as not to be able to understand what I am saying? As to me not putting personal info on my profile I thought that is up to the individual. Why does it bother you? Are you a stalker or something?

[This message has been edited by Bob Richards (edited 07-16-2007).]

PROOF THAT IT WAS A FAKE LISTING
It only took them over a week to react after the listing had ended. the fake seller would have been long gone

here what e-bay sent to me

Item Number - 280129551068
Item Title - Old Westland Service Porcelain Neon Gas Sign w/ Buffalo

Our records show that you placed a bid on this item. We removed this item from the Site and cancelled your bid because it appears that the seller's account has been compromised and used by an unauthorized third party. The seller's privileges to trade on eBay may be temporarily suspended while we investigate this matter further. Due to privacy concerns we will not be able to share further details related to this seller.

If someone claiming to be the seller asks you to complete a transaction outside of eBay, we strongly recommend that you ignore the request. Transactions for items listed on eBay that are completed outside of the eBay marketplace are not covered by the Buyer Protection services offered by eBay and can be highly indicative of fraud.

1. Stop payment with your bank if you paid by check.
2. Contact the Security Department of your credit card company to file a chargeback if you paid via credit card.

[This message has been edited by mobil100 (edited 07-16-2007).]

it appears its not only my name you don't pay attention to............we have told you several times & i will say again...........Bob, the sign is real, however the picture was stolen.....there are many big porcelain neon signs in this photo & the owners are friends of mine.....

i don't claim to be a sign expert, however i deal in signs as a full time job selling to a couple restaraunt chains & some very high end collectors....i buy & sell signs just about every day....I have been doing this full time for over 15 years however i don't know everything, but i do know the photo was copied from the internet from friends of mine.......

you say i don't answer questions, Well you have not answered any, HAVE YOU SEEN THE PHOTO ??, what should be done, etc. etc........
I am done with this post also, you have TRIED to manipulated our posts , put words into peoples mouths, change what they have said & it appears you will take no responsibility for your words or actions & you will listen to nobody...............it also appears you are trying to hide something by not listing any info in your profile & i don't deal with people like that....Good Luck

No possible good can come from slinging mud back and forth.

Rather, the intent of this post is to educate and shine light on a subject so legitimate collectors can make better, informed decisions. Sharing knowledge about the law and eBays policies should not be construed as criticizing anyone for how they intervened in this matter, it simply was a means to make everyone more accutely aware of the potential risks involved.

I'd be disappointed to read about a well intentioned collector intervening in an ebay auction only to see things go sideways for them.

Hey guys. I feel responsible for pouring gasoline on the fire with my post about judging mobil100 for his actions. I didn't mean to start anything by questioning Chadhaas' statements with regard to Mobil100's actions. I understand the concern and potential risks in placing a bogus bid to stop the fraudulent activity on eBay. Many believed strongly that the Ad was bogus and the actions of Mobil100 may have put an end to the madness, but I think we all need to move on regarding this topic.

No point in crying over spilled milk..Mobil100 did what he thought was right with the potential risk that the Ad was legit . Could it have been a legitimate Ad....sure. The bottom line is that is stopped and I agree with Chadhaas and others, that there is always a risk in placing a bogus bid to stop fraudulent activity as it is a legally-binding contract to purchase an item.

I appreciate everyone's passion for this topic and their opinions, but in the end we are all members of this great site because we love gas and oil stuff. Let's not forget why we tune into this site every day. There's a lot of knowledge to be learned on this site and many great people in this hobby.

Let's put this to bed once and for all and let bygones be bygones. Life is stressful enough to ruin our love for the hobby with harsh comments and spite for anyone with an opinion that differs from our own. In the end, none of us fell victim to the scammer running the phony Ad, so let's count ourselves lucky and move on.

I'm out.........

Mac

Shot at 2007-07-16

THANK YOU! GOODNIGHT!!!!!

Well said.