A recent post made me wonder if anyone here has heard of this? You list an item, put a very high reserve on it, wait to see what the high bid is with reserve not met, if you will take that bid you contact buyer outside ebay and sell it to him. Its all done outside ebay and paypal. When its an item worth thousands, you save lots of money.
Have you seen this?

Sure, ebay has been around for quite a while now and this has pretty much been going on since the beginning. I believe ebay tries to stop a lot of wrong doings as it's only money out of their own pocket, but bottom line is that there is no perfect fix for every problem

Fair, Hell No, the people doing it are Untrustworthy, Shady, Crooked,etc. and Nobody I would ever deal with. I pride myself in Honesty and dealing with Honest people that don't try to beat the system any way they can.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I see it being done on high end items. I wonder how they get away with it.

Because eBay can't stop it. When I list an item, I own it, and I can do whatever I want with the item. Hopefully, I'll follow the rules established by eBay, but I don't have to. I can end my auction early (up to 24 hours early) or I can put a ridiculously high reserve on the item and communicate with perspective buyers off of eBay.

You have to take the good with the bad on eBay. Just my opinion.

Well, what some of guys are forgetting is.....the only way you can communicate with that high bidder initially, is through ebay......nowaday, you can't can't send your e-mail address to him thru ebay messages the old conventional way......you have to disguise it.......now, remember ebay can read any e-mail ever sent thru their message system but they can't police all e-mail because of sheer volume. However.....if if they catch wind of it and read an e-mail where one person says "let's do a deal outside of e-bay." They can, and have give that person(s) the heave ho......forever...the ebay death sentence. And before you say...well, I'll just register another name.......it's WAY more complicated than that....you, yourself will not be able to get back on...it'll boil down to having to use someone else's account ( or wife), even through they do pay attention to IP addresses.....so that computer at that location is dead as far as getting back on.........bottom line........if you do it, you're taking a BIG chance.

GREED. Plain & Simple.
WE ALL break rules every day, one way or another [speed limits, is just one of many].

I have never disguised my email address before in an eBay message to a seller/buyer. Perhaps eBay of old might have been proactive on monitoring this type of activity, but the current eBay doesn't appear to monitor any of this. eBay's bread and butter is no longer in collectibles it's now in new merchandise, so perhaps they have lightened up on their monitoring activities.

I watch A LOT of auctions on eBay, and I see a good number end early (and we all know why, and it's not because there was an "error" in the listing).

Dick is right, the reason why people circumvent the eBay policies is because of greed.

just some food for thought:
ebay is an advertising medium- you PAY to list an item for sale. You may have it for sale in other mediums - craigs, oldgas, website, etc.. Should one of these options produce a real buyer who is willing to pay your price - why not end the listing and sell it to him? Now, I don't agree with this action once a reserve is met - as then in my opinion you have committed to sell. Especially on the high dollar items mentioned above - with ebay/paypal fees through the roof - sometime a "bird in the hand" is way to go. Could you possibly get more later? Maybe yes, maybe no. I don't see it as greed, but a business decision. Just a different point of view for consideration. My 2 cents. thanks

For those of you guys out there that think Ebay charges too much,,,ebay fees are approx. 9% plus taking paypal is approx. 3% for a total of 12%.
For that you get to have a world first class venue for selling, and thats a lot of potenial buyers, more than any auction house could hope to gather in one place and someone ( Paypal ) collects your money instantly and keeps it in your bank account and guarantee's that the transaction will go right, from that you can print your own shipping label and do your own postage ( instead of standing in line at the post office)...and YES they even allow you to cancel your auction ( end the auction early) thats ebay's rules,, no one is breaking any rules by cancelling the auction. You would never get an auction house to provide that kind of service for 12%. If any of you have ever sold stuff in an auction the least you can pay the auctioneer is 15% and most times 20% -25% and you don't get to change your mind half way thru the auction and take your stuff back or sell it to someone else in the audience either... so the moral of this story is please don't feel sorry for Ebay, play by their rules, end your auction early if you want, sell to whoever you want. I don't hear Ebay complaining, trust me they will take care of their business they don't need your sympathy or help..
ps. Don't be so disgruntled with a seller for ending their auction early and selling to someone else, all they are trying to do is get the most for their item and all your trying to do is buy it for the cheapest by waiting till near the end of the auction ( sniping),,,what you the buyer is ticked off with is that you didn't get it cheap and someone else bought it.. the owner has the best options and should have, as he is the one with the money invested in the item. So if you want the item bad enough bid early and bid high that way you won't be dissapointed... :):):):):) Just my opinion..

( From an earlier post )"Fair, Hell No, the people doing it are Untrustworthy, Shady, Crooked,etc. and Nobody I would ever deal with. I pride myself in Honesty and dealing with Honest people that don't try to beat the system any way they can."

These people are not Untrustworthy,Shady,Crooked or beating the system, Ebay allows you to end your auction early... this is NOT hard to understand...Your just jealous you didn't beat the other guy that got the item...this is a buisness NOT a game..

Wes,

My thoughts exactly!

Jamie

It's all greed, I agree,, but by the buyer and the seller,,one is no different than the other.

No, I think you misunderstood the post, It is not about ending an auction early, It is about a seller that puts a high reserve on an item, then time after time they will contact the underbidder with a "second chance offer" saying the first buyer backed out. It is pure Deceit and Scam. Basically SCHILL bidding. Greed all the way. they are doing it for;
1) running up the bidding with fake bids, srewing the unsuspecting buyer.
2) using ebay for the contacts and then screwing ebay out of their rightful commission.


No jealousy here, I get an item or I don't, no big deal. It's only stuff

J.E.......sorry to have to correct you, but you are dead wrong......ebay messages doesn't allow e-mail addresses to go from member to member.....in the old days they would, but not anymore......check it out for yourself.

People will still only pay what they want to pay,,at least I do or will,,, we are adults here, not kids,,seems your taking this Ebay BUSINESS away to serious,,,if it's no big deal why are you so concerned ? Your right it is just stuff.. but to some it's a way of making a living and business is business, why are you so concerned if ebay is making money or not?

I wanted to see for myself. So I sent myself an eBay message from one of my accounts to another with one of my junk email addresses in the body.

I am a businessman, I know Good business practice and I know Greed and Deceit. Did you know there is a difference

You're right.
I just sent my sister a message through ebay,with my email address in the message,and she just emailed me back with same type of reply you're showing.Email addy & all.

Email addresses do come through an ebay reply.If they're monitoring them,they're not monitoring all of them.

Interesting debate !! It is my business and my stuff, that I worked very hard to get. I have never set a high reserve and then contact a buyer who was the high bidder. It just does not seem right to the other bidders.
I very rarely use reserves, unless I have no idea what an item is worth and just want to see what it will bring. If I know its a good item and I know people will pay, I start it at 9 bucks and let them fight for it(I always get more for an item this way.) If I know its a good item, but believe there will be very few bidders, I start the auction at the lowest I can take. I have ended a couple auctions early. One time I had 2 wheel horse suburban tractor signs. I had 30 bucks in each and no idea of value. I listed them at a starting bid of 90 bucks, starting bid. A guy contacted me and said, "I have been searching for those for 20 years". He offered me 700.00 each. Since I had no other bidders, I took his offer.

If your in business ( a businessman ) do you check with your suppliers to make sure they are making enough money on items your buying from them ? My point was , why are you so concerned with Ebay getting scammed..No body is getting scammed into anything, the person buying is only paying what he wants to and agreeds to pay , however the seller get there, and Ebays allows sellers to end their auction... the only person not happy is the one who didn't want to step up and pay for what he wants.

and if KZ1000 wouldn't do the same thing, then he is a rare guy,,,,

KZ - would the type of auction listing you are referring to happen to be related to a certain very recent discussion here on old gas (which I can't seem to find on the site anymore?) about auctions from someone in your area of the country? And of course, I don't mean you.

I was watching that discussion and wondering how everyone was ignoring the elephant in the room?

I agree these are two different discussions in this thread. I agree with Wes on ending listings, but agree with you on what you are describing - that is not right.

I have my phone number in every auction. Just in case someone wants to step up and make a high offer. Amistadi used it once. I swear he called 10 seconds after I listed a sign. I still do not know how he did that....:)

quoting Wes: "Don't be so disgruntled with a seller for ending their auction early and selling to someone else, all they are trying to do is get the most for their item and all your trying to do is buy it for the cheapest by waiting till near the end of the auction ( sniping),,,what you the buyer is ticked off with is that you didn't get it cheap and someone else bought it.. the owner has the best options and should have, as he is the one with the money invested in the item. So if you want the item bad enough bid early and bid high that way you won't be dissapointed... :):):):):) Just my opinion.."

very well said Wes! As a seller if I have an item listed, and I have an idea what it's worth - if it is not getting any bids and I find a real buyer - I'm selling it. And although I don't like paying them- Wes is dead on about the fees for Ebay. Paypal, I don't like paying any more than I do Visa - still hoping technology yields us a more reasonable transaction charge for transferring OUR money - but that's another topic.

KZ1000, lets use this for an example,,, you have an antique store downtown, you paid $100 for a sign,,, you think you got a real bargin and you put it up in your store for $900 , it sits there for a couple of months and some guys look at it and two of them make you a offer, one is $450 and the other is $650,,, you let it sit there for another month and you don't get anymore offers, which guy are you going call back and ask if he wants to buy the sign ?

Go to a local auction company and let them sell your stuff for 25% then when a buyer comes in interested... try to go get your item and sell it directly to him. Let me know how that works for you!
Does that sounds stupid because it is! But many of you do it on ebay. I hear it all the time... ebay has plenty of money! They are still the best at selling items with the lowest cost to the seller period other than the free sites but not many use those.

People need to understand... you want it... get a price in your mind and go with it. If i see something on ebay i really want i will ask the seller if he has a buy it now. Why because i know others do it and i don't want to miss it. If he says no... then i say don't end it with out me getting a chance to buy it.

I have always said this... people that are in this hobby for strictly money are the ones not having any fun! Period!

Thats exactly what I've been saying only in different words,,read all the blogs on this from the beginning..my words ,,,,long story short, if you don't like the sellers on ebay don't bid on the item..

This topic has been beaten to death. Everyone on here comes from different backgrounds. I think what Rick is trying to say is this is not ethical and he is 110 percent CORRECT. This brought me to a good quote from the movie Wall Street "Someone reminded me I once said, 'Greed is good' Now it seems that it's legal because everyone is drinking the same Kool-Aid.". Do you think it is ethical to do something if "everyone" is doing it? I have complained about eBay fees in the past but on the other hand eBay is a cheap way to sell your item and most of the time get maximum dollar at a DISCOUNTED price. Think of what an auction house gets? Compare and you will see why in some cases eBay is the way to go. Many people have said " who cares eBay doesn't need the money". This is bs because eBay even though a big corporation,it is stil a business that has expenses, creates jobs, and helps us sell our stuff. I am not one to point fingers but in some cases it looks like people are using eBay for FREE exposure. It is the right for a person to list and item with a reserve because it's their item and they can set the price. But if a person consistently abuses the system and uses it for free exposure that is unethical.

I see your point, but you have to keep in mind that ebay is still getting paid for those listings via listing fees- especially well in the case of reserve auctions - even if they don't sell. I do agree that although many of us may moan about paying them -their fees are really fair given the audience and ease of transactions.

Yep, just another opinion,, maybe from a different background ?
What isn't fair is bashing what another seller considers to be the correct way of doing business on Ebay,, this all really started from this quote " re- high reserve and not sell the item..the people doing it are Untrustworthy, Shady, Crooked,etc. and Nobody I would ever deal with. I pride myself in Honesty and dealing with Honest people that don't try to beat the system any way they can."

Wes, put your drink down and read the post from the beginning again. The post is about the practice of advertising your item on ebay with a "reserve not met", then after the auction the sellers will contact the high bidder, (or the 2nd high with the lame excuse the 1st bidder backed out) and offer the sign at a "discount" without having to pay the fees.

The fraud in that is giving people the FALSE pretense of values with fake high bidders

***********************

The Post had NOTHING to do with ending auctions early

I was going to ask a question in a new post the other day about reserves but after reading this it all make sense to me now. When I put something on eBay with a reserve and somebody emails me and ask what my reserve is I always give it to them. I have nothing to hide just protecting what I have in it. I get upset when I email a seller ask what the reserve is and they get mad and won't tell you because it's a big dark secret but now I get why. I never knew people were doing this.

Beat to death....but I would like to add a little more facts I really haven't seen addressed or acknowledged.

It is far from free to list on Ebay with a reserve. So they do get paid. Listing a $2000 reserve would be $22 up front listing fee. The charge 1% plus $2 for reserve fee.

Also the services you get from an auction company is certainly more. Ebay....seller does ALL the work...setting up the advertising, dealing with the people, collecting money, packaging, shipping,risk of chargeback of the payment. With the auction company, you drop it off and later collect the money.

I have found bigger dollar items (over $1000)at bigger auction companies generally charge 10%.

Jim

See, bashing other people is your standard,,,when you put a reserve on an item on ebay it does cost money... How do you know what the seller does when the reserve isn't met,,how do you know he contacts back bidders etc. ? Maybe thats what your doing ? Hmmmmm.... How do you know if I drink or not,,, maybe all your really doing is guessing what other people are doing..Make sure you know what your talking about before you accuse people of doing things you don't agree with.

We are stopping this bickering now!!!!

I do not see personal attack from the post KZ1000 made. He said "put your drink down and read the post from the beginning again." which i see as a people saying "stop the car"

I think the point has been made and people opinions have been said.