Take a look at this sign item #3650638803

Nice sign John , whats the question. if you look back in petroleum news, you will see at one of the bashes some found a hole stack of these. I think Jim posted pictures of the guy laying them on the ground and said they sold very fast. I couldn't find the pictures in the back issues.



[This message has been edited by Dwaine Buck (edited 01-03-2004).]

I'm not a Standard expert, but it looks like a repop to me. The slick white back doesn't match the 20 by 30 inch ones. I wouldn't buy it with counterfeit money!

Here's my thoughts on this sign.... Notice
the edges are rounded off? How much corcern was there 70 years ago for a square pointy maybe dangerous sign that
supposedly came already installed on a
oil cabinet door? I smell a rat. I know that
in the early-mid 80's I bought repop signs from dealers that said the with todays lawsuits manufacturers couldn't put such a harsh point on some signs esp. arrow signs. Take that into consideration. The seller says he's had it for 25 years. I know of repops that are 30 years old! I've had a repop of this sign for about 10 years. The books say that this sign was made in two sizes: 20x30" and 12x20". make up your own minds!

DOC

[This message has been edited by THE AMERICAN GARAGE (edited 01-03-2004).]

I was there when the big stash was laid out at Iowa Gas. The signs were all 20" by 30", and had pocked backs. I bought 4 of them. This seller says he believes it's origninal! No way this sign came out of the thirties..........

Butch

We've had these discussions before about signs. and the different sign manufactures around the counrty, how each company does different things to their signs, we've tried to get some of you sign experts to help us with some dateing on EYELETS, and no one came forward. Just collectors talking amongst themselves found that the very early signs had no EYELET grommets, then came stainless steel gommets that star type in the back, but also in some areas the EYELET gommet were brass star type gommets. The rolled back grommet came around the 50ties an 60ties. could you comment on this for us Butch? the EYELET grommet, hes showing on this sign is stainless steel, with the star type back. I have never seen a reproduction sign with this type of grommet. but I've never seen them all. can we get some sign guys comments on this agin.

[This message has been edited by Dwaine Buck (edited 01-03-2004).]

I have some of the 20 by 30 inch Socony aircraft signs. None of them have the split back grommets. They have solid steel grommets. If you can get in a old bulk plant and find original old signs, it stands to reason that you can get in a old porcelain plant and find all kinds of grommets.

Butch is right at Iowa they were all 20"x30", and a totally different sign I bought a few as well. As for the grouments, that doesn't always tell the story. I have seen NUMEROUS repop signs where people have weathered them, and also took out the new grouments and replaces them with old ones. There is a lot more that goes into dating a sign than grouments.

I wished one of you sign guys would write a piece on it for this site, so we can know what we are buying . as I've said, different areas had different ways of doing there signs. we've seen that with flying a signs. but we're all trying to learn thats why we come here to see if anything new has popped up. write something for us.

The back of the sign will tell you more than what kind of grommets it has. I checked a 1939 Texaco No Smoking, and a 1946 Texaco Consignee. Both had splitback steel grommets. I checked a black Texas Company No smoking sign and it has solid steel grommets. I also checked a black Pennzoil bottle rack sign and it had split back brass grommets. I know it's as old as the heels. Go figure.

I know this may be a hassle but could someone post photos of the different grommits to look at?

Your right Butch, different sign companys that got the contracts to do sign for different oil companys used different ways of doing things. so you might look at signs made in Canada from 1941 thru 1945 and they are different from what was made here before and after the war. Signal in 1931 when they started their gasoline division, the first door signs with the two red lights did not have grommets. but the later ones with the two red lights did.
The point being, theres guys that go by the grommet only. there are the ones that go by the pointed corners, or rounded ones, the backs . the thickness. we have put two Flying a sign togather from the same era and ones a creamy ones white ,white. ones corners are not as pointy as the other, two different sign companys. the bigger the company the more confuseing there signs are, thats why when a sign comes on that I question I email you or Keith. can't get you most of the time your always in someones barn. or pulled up to their table, ha ha just kidding. we need a good book on signs , not just pictures but information. Seth is doing it now but there are a lot of repos that you can't tell, but hes marking them good. and we need that. and the repo globes , I've said it before and I'll say it agin . the west coast companys never made a 13 1/2 " globe. tidewater was the only one on the west coast in the last years that might have. and we (all of us) have not seen it all yet. Up pops a little ol Micraphone sign from Associated and all the big guys goes nuts. how about the Beacon signs that showed up at Fred's . everybody but one standing around scratching him self looking and one guys steps up , ha ha oh Butch that same guy has 4 more. but hes not as dumb this time. have a nice day guys.

Dwaine,
I've figured out one thing about globes. NEVER say never! You might be right that west coast companies didn't use 13 1/2" globes, but new discoveries pop up all the time.
Rumor is there might be a new sign book in the works. I'd say a GOOD sign book is long overdue!

In my 1988 Weber's catalogue shows the IDENTICAL porcelain sign 10 x 14 inch selling for 16.95. I'm with Butch...there is NO WAY this is an old original sign...

Dwaine,
I am with Bob, never say never Clipper is out of Seattle and they made a 13.5" globe.

Husky used 13.5 too!! and Home Oil too but not down there!

Hi Minuteman,

Glad to see you in here. All I had to go on was what little bit of knowledge I have. Glad to see someone with some facts on this particular sign. I guess this guy must have bought his out of the 1978 Webbers catalogue!! He says he's had it 25 years.........

I agree with the never say never. I just picked up a 12-1/2" high profile metal globe - Union. I believe it's from Union Oil of Canada. It's the one listed on page 260 of the 2nd globe book.

Dan

I have always questioned this 12in x 18in sign, there are no grommets in the corners [but does have chipping around them, holes are approx. 1/4in].

Thanks for your imput.
Dick

I'd like to see the 13 1/2" clipper globe. there was some repo stuff made back in the 60ties from a guy in Spokane Wash. Huskey is not west coast. All I'm saying is you guys haven't seen it all. I just came from Sweetwaterjrs place and buddys let me tell you you haven't seen it all. a black veedol neon clock, flying a pump plates that are creams and whites some with pointed corners some with the rounded. a 8"x8" pump plate with red and green lines going around the out side. Hancock pump plates they said never excisted(diesil) He just gave me a nos flying a tire. We haven't seen it all.

Washington Chief globe is 13.5 inch...is it not west coast?????

Lance thanks for posting the pictures of the 13.5" Clipper globe for Dwaine's viewing pleasure. No one is claiming they have seen it all or know it all. You were the one that stated west coast companies NEVER made 13.5" globes.

I have to admit, I wasn't following this thread. I did glance through and see a request to see the 13-1/2" Clipper and I knew I had a pic, so I thought I'd share it. I'm sure there are a few others out there, but definately not many.

------------------
Lance
pogogas@telus.net
www.pogogas.com

How do you know thats not a fake. is it in a book? who wrote the book? Dick has a nice old sign there, how do you know its not real?
Stay on the look out boys. thanks for the peek John and lance. Dick I think the sign is real.

The clipper is a newer discovery, it was found after Scott's book came out. If you ask globe collectors they know it's a real one. It's extremely rare and not many out there.

So , you see. there might be more , even the so called experts don't know everything. I've been hearing this for years and passing it on. Now I can say well theres one 13 1/2" made by Clipper and maybe one by another company after 1946. But like I always say, you learn something new everyday. and thats what its all about.
Everyone gave there oppinion on this socony sign, they didn't make one that size, how do you know. Its hard to buy now days.
know one I no, is an expert on any thing.
I'm not , don't claim tobe. that's why this sites great, we can look at stuff and see. thanks John.

There are new discoveries all the time. There's no way anyone could know it all. Look at how many globes were discovered between the first and second globe books. I think the 1993 book listed about 3000 different globes. The 1999 version about 5000 globes! I doubt if there will be that kind of increase when the next globe book is written, but there have been alot of new discoveries since '99.