Over the years I've watched people come into the hobby,particularly on this site, and then either just leave it or become very inactive. I say this site simply because the hobby as a worldwide activity is on display for all to view and experience.
On a local scale I have watched the same thing with concern.They come into it with enthusiastic and active for awhile and then are just gone.
I'm wondering why ? Sudden interest to followed by complete abandonment does not occur without a reason IMO. What drove them away ? cost ? Not around here. Changing interest in collecting ? Possibly. Lack of an amiable group of enthusiastic who share similar interests and values ? I think so.
Thank you for your thoughts, I really do believe that if is important to keep experienced collectors in the hobby who will share their knowledge with new comers. otherwise, and I've seen it happen both groups simply become inactive.
I've been collecting Gas and Oil since 1985 or so, it used to be REAL fun. What has changed it for me and many others are:
REPROS, They HAVE ruined the hobby, as it is supposed to be the Collecting of Gas and Oil related original artifacts, not newly made *****. Every week some "NEW" item gets created or repopped so the future looks even worse than now. Just read the few posts on here and see the cunfusion.
GREED, There are many that are ONLY in it for the buck and don't give a care about the date/history/etc. of an item. It is only a business to them and the true collectors end up getting the shaft.
AMERICAN PICKERS, Enough Said
Specific to posting on this forum:
Speaking as a newish person, I think there are a number of reasons. The longer you are on, the more you learn, the less questions you have--unless you are working on a new petro-related project (restoration work etc).
The other thing is the time suck that forums can be, no matter how much you enjoy them. If I had joined two years ago, I would not have been active for weeks at a time during the longer days of the year. Two years ago I was painting 4 to 6 days a week to get ready for a solo show. This year, I'm not as busy. Lots of folks have daylight activities that disappear in the winter.
There are occassional kerfluffles, but no need to take them personally. Also without the emoticons, or knowing that certain folks use sarcasm as 'joking', you could take things the wrong way. Sometimes you just have to step back and realize there are enough interesting/friendly threads on this list, that the kerfluffles are a drop in the bucket. Want to frusterate someone detrmined to get a rise out of you...don't respond.
And if the person is becoming a real troll, the moderators will step in.
I've gotten a lot more amicable responders than crabs, and the crabs I just figure are having a bad day. Unless I think they are really oversensitive (from looking at other posts), I don't avoid them, and usually catch them on a better day.
Many probably don't leave the hobby, they just don't post as much because life gets in the way.
I do see how unmarked reproductions would make folks stop collecting...
I have been collecting since 1977 and my biggest reason for slowing down and the loss of interest is prices.... I remember running around North Dakota and Minnesota buying Husky and Buffalo globes for $600 - $1000 Showcase pumps and roman columns for $1500 to $2500 then run down to Iowa gas sell some of them make a little $ and buy globes and signs I liked and went home after a fun show..... Then supply and demand kicked in and prices started going through the roof and when I couldn't justify or afford globes and signs in the 10K+ range and decided it was time to let them go..... But remember in any hobby when there are big players paying big $ prices will rise when they quit buying prices will drop and KZ1000 had a great point what happens when prices get to high....
I am prob one of the youngest, serious collectors on this site. I have wanted to buy gas and oil signs for a very long time-but the prices of what I wanted discouraged me from this hobby for a while. There are many reasons why I believe people leave this hobby- financial, family, loss of interest... The true collectors will always stay around but people's lives change. Some of the reproduction signs that could easily decieve advanced collectors is something that is/will have a major impact on this hobby...I feel that the small dated trademarked /decorator reproduction signs do not hurt the hobby. I feel maipulated market prices have made this hobby unaffordable and takes away from the fun causing people to loose interest...
KZ100, you hit the nail on the head for me. I used to post everyday and was very active on this site.
I myself think alot of people just go thru different phases.I started out and still are into the old cars.Then I started collecting Griswold cast iron (close to 100pcs.) then I started collecting antiques in general.Then I got a gas pump and wanted another now I have 3 pumps and 2 lubesters,a few oil btls and cans.I love the signs but havent been able to turn loose of that kind of $$$,they are hard to come by here in my area.Any way my point is I like many others may head in a totaly different direction tomarrow.But for now I am enjoying every minute of it!
I believe KZ100 said alot of what I am thinking. Prices, ways to get the stuff, availability, RERPOS, and just getting tired of the same old stuff is always a problem. I still like the stuff, money is a problem, restoring is very costly, and storage in which I now do not have as much of. I like fixing things, so porcelain signs, smalls, and things that do not light up just don't have that appeal to me anymore. But most of all your life changes with age, children, and other family members that need your time and help. Family matters alot for most of use as well as it should be.
Besides that I really learned how to type better on this site!
I would have to agree with most of the posts so far that the rise in prices is one of the biggest factors for why many leave the hobby or have limited involvement as they only collect what they truly like or can afford. Approximately 20 years ago I was involved in the hobby and the prices were within most families "fun" disposable income; I left to raise a family and recently returned and was shocked on the high prices, an example of this was last weekend I attended the car event in Texas and went through the swap meet area there were two Wayne 60's in decent shape with asking prices of $2,000 each......they both sold before the end of the weekend. Another example of what I thought was a ridiculous high price was a 30" Shell sign that was in condition #5 or #6 shape, seller wanted $1,200 which I thought was 3 to 4 times what it was worth..............it did not sell.
Its kind of a hard hobby to get into if you are young alot of the vetan collectors with disposable income kinda bid up most of the signs and pumps if you go to an auction. u gota kinda hunt a little harder and find stuff randomly to get any good deals.I have ended up buying a few plastic signs and pretty rough metal sign that end up selling for a decent price I would like the nicer older metal signs but if im gona spend 600 on a sign I would rather put that money into an old truck
you are all rigth.I think stuff in barns is getting to hard to find,and gas is not cheap.
I believe you are all looking at prices of items, wearing blinders. What make you think some of the prices people are paying today are high. Back in 1988 I took a completly restored Wayne 60 Display case pump to Iowa Gas (the second IG) and sold it $1000, minutes after pulling into my space. I though a made a killing.
Prices have not gone up, it is inflation, plus my pump wasn't that great a pump at that time. It has taken almost 25 years for us to decide that W-60s, 36Bs, etc. are desirable pumps. Once you decide what is desirable, the prices of these pumps go up. The same holds true for signs and globes.
Back in 1988, I though paying $50.00 for a Texaco pump sign was rediculas, or paying more than $400 for a W-60 was the same.
A few things have changed since 1988, almost of all the bulk plants have been cleaned out. Buying over 100 pumps and everything else the bulk plant owner didn't want, for $700 are long gone (what I did in 1988). But this doesn't mean there isn't anything out there to find.
This hobby hasn't changed a bit, people my age (76) are selling, newbies are buying, and everybody in between are looking.
Just go to either (or both) conventions, the CTO in June, or Iowa Gas in August, and walk away telling anyone the hobby is dying.
This hobby is just like any other, are you buing to keep, buying to sell or buying to sell so that you can buy something you want to keep. Don't judge others for their motives.
Have fun, buy what you like and can afford.
Jack Sim
The reality is that the prices indeed have gone up.
Maybe not so much on unrestored pumps but I know for a fact the prices on signs have spiraled upward outpacing inflation.
Signs that I could have more easily afforded 10-15 years ago are now priced out of the stratospere....many times priced to the point I just shake my head in amusement.
So I def. agree with KZ on the price and also think repops have done their damage.
I think another huge reason why some aren't as active is because they have pretty much purchased about all they want. For me, my shop is full, and really there are just a couple more signs I'm looking to add when the time is right. Still love the hobby and read the boards everyday, just not on the hunt like I used to be.
I think there are a lot more lurkers than you realize.
And finally the infamous American Pickers show. I probably have a very different opinion on that, probably worthy of it's own thread as to not detract from this discussion.
For me personally, collecting over the years has gone in streaks. I start out strong in an area and when the "newness" wears off and it gets harder to find new items, I slow down. (not to mention the items you want to aquire are the harder to find items with higher values) While I've never totally lost interest in any of the collections I've started, many have been put on the back burner only to be revived at different points over the years. I started out collecting coins at age 10. While I've gone in and out of active buying over the last 25 years, I still find myself looking for good deals on coins every time I'm out hunting for petro items. I think many others share the same experience.
I started seriously collecting gas related items 5+ years ago and my interest hasn't waivered at all. Every time I look on-line or go to a show I see something I've never seen before and that makes it interesting. I've had many fun experiences out hunting for cans with my brother, or talking with farmers and old station owners about the "old days" that I wouldn't trade for anything. That makes it more than worth it to me even if I can't afford $1000 signs and globes every day like some can.
Repros are a scary thing, and I certainly understand how they could keep many from entering the hobby. For instance the repro Polly lens recently discussed on here. THAT scares me, a lens so well made that a good many collectors wouldn't ever have questioned the authenticity of the piece. When pieces like this become the norm, I foresee a great many more leaving the hobby, unfortunately.
Darin
I think its safe to say that, NOBODY gets into a hobby, to SAVE money.... I would think that a person would get into a hobby for some sort of fun. As for myself, I have left other forums, and put those hobbies on the shelf, when the fun was gone.
I recently obtained ownership of a pickup truck. I've been wanting to fix it up like a "Camping World Series" race truck. I joined the F-150 forum, made a few posts... And received some inconsiderate, and downright STUPID responses... I dont go there anymore. I didnt share the suspensions mods with them. Nor the fabrication of the Ram-air system, or the Front air dam.
Same story with the Model T. I wanted a 20s era Race Car. Talk about fun! Go to the Model T forum, and ask which distributor works the best, then sit back and watch the fur fly!
Now both of these examples are forum related, however, the same sort of games go on here, in this hobby. And it happens on the forum. Thats where we see, whos here, and who isnt. I've said in the past, that this is the best darn forum on the web, and I DO mean that. There are however, certain people, certain posts, and certain situations, that have caused me to not participate as activly (sp?) as I have in the past.
And to keep the peace, I'll leave it at that.
The DIRTY DEALS that happen in the hobby are a BIG TIME turn off for me...
People who fraud ad use different names trying to deceive turns me off And in the last 20 ears I have made some great friendships thru petro collecting but in this hobby like all there always is the jerks
I agree with most of the comments that have been said here so far and here are just a few of my own as well. I believe some of our veterans are still here they are just lurking. I think a lot of it has to do with so many people now join a site like this after watching american pickers and all of a sudden they think they can do this. They come here dont respect the guys that have really put a lot of effort into this hobby and have a ton of knowledge and just completely ignore all of that. Its all about the money and how fast they can make it. They dont care what nozzle is right with that pump, but I bet DB does. They will ask what something is worth and then list it on ebay and wont give a guy on oldgas a chance after we just helped them. Its things like this that starts to irritate people after awhile. When i started out I bought all the books and researched before I asked the questions and then said thank you when I got an answer. Maybe im being to harsh to the newer generation but as a younger collecter I value the Veterans and I hope all of you come back.
I agree with a lot of the comments posted, but especially with Shawn. I think respect (or lack thereof) has a lot to do with it.
Ditto-s932, I found this site looking for options to do a pump restore. Newby green that had collected Texaco and had lost interest due to other hobbys,and time restrains,but I still had this pump that I wanted to do.
This site renewed my interest, veterans helped and showed me to go slow,collect good stuff that I would be proud to display and own.The sad part of this is I know several that has left collecter sites because of the young crowd with no respect in chase of the fast dollar. I have talked to veteran members and in somecases had the chance to meet them in person that have found a niche within the hobby to offer a service to others ,and they are able to make a living at it. Great! What would this hobby be like if it wasn't for these. Pretty dull I would think. They take time to answer questions and treat everyone with respect. I am glad the younger genearation is here and I think most will grow into,persons as I just described,and the hobby will only grow. I know the oldtimers has refind me ,and I am thankfull.
Good afternoon everyone, I saw this post earlier in the day and went on with my day, but my mind kept coming back around to this topic so I thought I'd offer up a few of my thoughts.
This question in some form or another has been asked numerous times over the past couple decades that I've been involved in this hobby. There has always been a roll over in collectors and people are often concerned regarding their departure from this great hobby.
As I reflect on this question, I believe life has the biggest influence on individual involvement in collecting gas station stuff. Life dictates how much discretionary money and time we have to dedicate to our hobbies. Often younger collectors time is consumed by raising families and all that it entails, including finances. On the other hand collectors who retire have more time but sometimes less money due to living on a fixed income. Several years ago a good friend and avid globe collector retired and moved into a new smaller home. His collection was in boxes and he didn't have room to display them as he desired and was also unwilling to spend the money to add to his collection so he sold off his 100+ globes and focused on soda stuff, clocks, small signs, etc... I think this is a prime example of a collector whose interest simply evolved and whose desire to collect didn't go away, though he is no longer a prominent gas and oil collector.
The "bad apples" in our hobby are a transient group, they have been for years. Several people come to mind who were in this hobby for the wrong reasons, but they always disappear and the good remain. I acknowledge they can have a negative impact and do occasionally drive people away but the good far out weighs the bad. A very valid point was made that these few people who create problems in our midst drive people to lurk more instead of participate. I cannot recall who said it but I agree, this Oldgas group of guys and gals are far better than a lot of groups in the world!
With all this being said, I believe the single biggest reason why people exit this hobby is that they fail to connect on a personal level with other collectors. Collecting is no fun if you don't have someone to share it with who gets as excited as you do! My favorite part of this hobby is the friends I make along the way while attending the shows and auctions that Dad and I do. Too often collectors put too much focus on adding the next piece to their collection that they fail to make real friends along the way, friendships that transcend this hobby and go beyond. I know that come Peotone next week I will be telling stories and having a few cold drinks with many Old Gassers and not all of them will have to do with oil cans or gas pump globes, and that's a good thing! Regardless of if I buy or sell anything at Peotone, I am assured of a good show because of the people I know will be there. This forum is awesome, but it pales in comparison to the real deal and the real people behind the sign in name. I believe the people who fail to truly plug into the lives of other collectors who share similar passions, along with the other reasons given by myself and everyone else who has posted, may be more likely to fade into the shadows.
Twenty one years ago I attended my first Iowa Gas and jumped out of the truck with the zeal of every four year old and exclaimed: "Wow, Dad, isn't this great?!" I still feel that way today only with a little less gusto perhaps, a great hobby filled with lots of great people!
See ya'll in Peotone, stop by and say hello! Dad and I will be in the front room with a bunch of globes in the front room.
Aaron Hop
To all the Vetran members who have stuck it out,I would like to say Thanks!!! If it wasnt for you guys to pass on your knowledge to us new guys these pumps and signs would just be sold for scrap metal.Alot of the younger generations have no respect for alot of this stuff.You guys have to stick around and pass the knowledge to us newer guys so that we can keep hobby going!!!
I left because.....life happens.
When I first "noticed" this hobby, I was as excited as a kid on Christmas morning---it was new, exciting, and fit with my lifestyle which revolves around things with wheels. Already a veteran swap meet-er, gas shows were like a new drug! I bought common stuff at first(every newbie does, right?), moving into pumps and signs---at one point I had over 100 pumps after buying out a couple bulk plants.I loved 'restoring pumps and selling them at shows and swaps---what a rush! The next swing was to buy rare or oddball pieces, especially after seeing other guys' collections. I wanted to have COOL stuff I could enjoy and that my new pals would appreciate.Somewhere along the way I accepted the fact I couldn't compete with the guys who had the best stuff...no, I wasn't jealous---I love to see people find great stuff---it was more of the realization I was just a small fish in a big pond. Reality.
Then the big reality hit---I lost the building I had rented and housed my business in for 18 years---it was time for me to build a place of my own. I made a decision to dump a lot of my gas stuff, along with almost a dozen cars(including a 34 Ford coupe, a 33 roadster, a 59 El Camino, a 66 Corvette,etc,etc...sigh) I knew without my business, I had no income--ha! Being a responsible adult is HARD! LOL!
I DID keep some of my collection(accumulation?), and over the past ten years I've replaced and added to it, and it now decorates my paid-for building.
THAT, folks, is why I left the hobby.
I've slowly creeped back into it here and there when finances allow.....maybe it's an addiction, but I'd like to think it's because I miss the people that I befriended thru the years.
Sure, there are some negatives, like fakes(collectibles AND people), the rare stuff is even more unaffordable, hit and run pickers, and so on. Factor in the decline in the economy and it's easy to see why people leave. Still, it's a great hobby....and I would predict the guys who bail will be back...most of 'em anyway.
When my wife caught me in the back yard diggin around looking for her coffee can that she stashes the egg money in she took the damn shovel to me and I spent a week in the hospital( thank you government who ever you are for the free hospital) When I got out I thout I would out smart her and go out there in the dark when she couldnt see me. Well she put traps out there and now I have a perminant limp. I decided that taken the kids winter shoe money and the grocery money wasnt worth the pain I was causing myself so now I only spend my can money on my little thing as we call it. Gas stuf. Ya im down but im not out. Im gona make it big some day I just no I am.
YES ALOT OF JERKS WITH MONEY!!
People who fraud ad use different names trying to deceive turns me off And in the last 20 ears I have made some great friendships thru petro collecting but in this hobby like all there always is the jerks
The Hobby~ I remember my formative years in this hobby... My Grandma was married to a man Art Hankins and he owned a gas station in Centerville,SD. When Art passed away and Grandma moved back to Sioux Falls she sold the place and up in the attic I found some very cool old signs. My dad tried to get them but being 13yrs old I turned on the charm and said "Grandma, can I have these?" You know who got them! Anyway I stashed them away and darned near forgot I had them till I was in my early 20's and rented an old farmhouse. Needing something to fill the walls.... hey I got them old signs! It started.
There was an auction in the paper listing some more signs and I went. Some "Rich Sob" bought everyone of them with his head shaking like a bobble-head till he owned every one of them. How I hated this guy. I latter met him and he turned out to be a really nice guy who gave me some very good deals on some stuff because he took a shine to me! - So one lesson I learned was to not hate someone because they had more money than you do! But back to the focus of the thread. I remember at the mall finding a re-pop Pontiac sign and how jazzed I was to have it. It was an Andy Rooney repop- but hey I didn't have to bid against the RICH GUY! lol but this little sign made me want the "rush" again even tho it was a re-pop. I I found that rush again, problem was it cost more! I think that transends many hobbies and fields of collecting. It is human nature~
I have had times when I post alot and times when I don't....Nicole nailed that one on the head with the time factor, I think I hit a time warp when I turned 45 and my watch started running at double speed! there never seems to be enough time. One thing I can hardly stand on this site relates to the value section. First I would like to suggest to the moderators is NO PICTURE NO POST. It is nowhere near rocket science to post a picture on this site! It seems there are some people that only post in this section and no where else on the site wanting free information to put reserves on there items when they list them on Feebay (where by some miricle they post a picture!). If you want the value of an item say to yourself Hummmm... how much do I really like this sign,pump,widget..... buy it or get out of line.
I have said it before there are a lot of people who think it is oldgases responsibility to provide a free "SAFETY NET" so they don't get ripped off.Unfortunatley Experience is the best way to avoid a bad decisions~ But bad decisions are the only way you get experience! As far as the repop vs. original separate the site or add a forum for "Art Lovers" or "Purests" just an idea....
The time vortex just got me. Thanks all for reading my "rant" lol and lastly I do appreciate the freindships I have formed and knowledge gained from the veterns on this site.
Garage-a-gogo
p.s. I haven't posted much this summer and ended up missing Iowa Gas this year due to the restoration on my Harley Davidson Electaglide. Will post pic's in non-petro area when done. Also went 3 mo. without buying a sign!
It's normal to have cycles of up and down in enthusiasm and involvement for most things. Money and time are often factors. Relationships and experiences can be bigger factors. Getting burned in a deal can put a collector on the sidelines for a while. when the bad deal is with a "friend" or someone you have regular contact with, it stings even more.
Time usually heals those wounds, but some folks never get back to where they were if the hurt is deep enough. For some folks, the fun has left the hobby. For them, it is more about grudges, revenge or making a profit no matter what.
I've had a couple of times when I thought, "Why am I doing this?" with a thought of turning off Oldgas.com and walking away. A few people have been so mean with bitter personal insults, threats and actions. But I gave it more thought and considered, "Why allow a few bad characters ruin a good thing that 99% of the people appreciate?"
I have slowed down in my buying for my collection. Part of it is the economy, but part is the maturing of my collection. I've come to the point where I have many of the easy and inexpensive things in my specialty. Now the hard to find and more expensive things are left. I still find and can afford them occasionally. I still get enjoyment out of looking and a rush when a cool piece comes my way.
Early on, I thought this topic was going to be a troublesome one with potential for conflict. I appreciate all the well thought out viewpoints without attacks.
I agree with the don`t hate the guy with a lot of money. They can be real nice people and will pass on their items they upgrated or are tired of to the guys with less money for a good deal.
As a relative newcomer to this hobby I can't comment on why people leave the hobby, but for the last 18 to 20 months I've been very active buying signs pumps and even a couple of whole collections. I enjoy researching the items I find--not only their value but the history of the companies etc. That's why I like this site. I do post on the value section but not just to use the knowledge to resell but because finding out if I made a good deal is part of the fun. If I can't find values on Matthews or Ebay where else would I go to find out value and history of companies? I haven't sold anything that I've bought. Also I've collected cars for a lot longer than I've collected petroliana and I think many of the issues that have been discussed as to why people leave the hobby are common to any hobby. There are fakes in art cars watches coins. Learning to avoid these is part of the education. I hope the guys and gals that have been at this awhile will continue to help those of us still learning. We're not all out for a buck or to take advantage of the great info here.
This hobby would be better off with out the want to be's who try to cheat the people who work hard for what they have.
No matter how hard they have worked.
Lucky for me in life my mentor (my Dad) was a hard working honest man so I was taught his principles. Sometimes people would rather cheat and swindle people for the fast buck then cry when they get called on it.
They usually fade away as people wise up to them.
I dont think Souperhigh is the one who threw the first stone. I consider Maurice aka souperhigh a friend of mine he is also one of the veterens that i have been talking about when it comes to respect. Its guys like him that have so much to offer if someone will just ask and listen to what they say. When i first started collecting globes Maurice was one of the first people to help me with my collection. When I shifted gears and started focusing on Missouri companies he once again helped me out with some globes that are very rare and that he did not have to give up but he did because he is a friend a true collector and new that it meant more to me than him. I writing all of this because i dont want to see more good guys like this leave and believe me he is one of the good guys in this hobby.
I agree with you s932, Maurice aka souperhigh, is one of the good guys on this site. I also quit posting as much for various reasons but havent left the hobby but do still check the site
most days.
People leave the hobby because they never stepped all the way in through the door. Maybe it was just a fad, or a trend for them. I will be on the lookout for cool petro stuff for the long haul. I will say this, the best part of the hobby for me is now gone. I used to love to find and purchase a few pumps a year that were either in the wild or found through friends or word of mouth. They're basically all gone now. And unlike signs, I never had to worry about buying a fake pump. Pumps are real.
I've read all of the posts on this thread & maybe I just missed comments that pertain to the fact that some collectors,like me, are getting "long in the tooth" with no children interested in following up with the hobby. Let's face it, some collectors die, and some go to nursing homes, leaving the family with stuff on their hands that they don't want. Sadly, this is one way some collectors "leave the hobby".
I look at this as merely a changing of the guard! One collector may leave for those reasons and many will benefit! The relatives will have an influx of cash from items they aren't interested in and undoubtedly there will be some new collectors born from the influx of items to the market! This will be the future of the hobby once all of the bulk plant finds etc... are gone
Also regarding American Pickers ruining the hobby.... That I believe is an unfair statement. I have seen more new usernames pop up on this site since that show began. They can't all be shysters. American Pickers is a production. I enjoy watching it just to see what some of these people have stashed away! I have heard there will be an episode comming out soon where they go through the Pioneer Auto Museum in Murdo,SD. Be sure to tune into that one. The guy has a fabulous collection!
WELCOME BACK ONE AND ALL!!Some of the names up there are,IMO,among the most respected in the hobby.And this time you posted your thoughts in longer posts explaining you positions.I think there is nothing that can improve the hobby more than that sort of honest,well intentioned expressions of informed opinions.I think that is a tremendous improvement that can improve enjoyment of the hobby for beginners and veterans alike.
I must admit that I am one of the veteranswho has backed way off participation at any level for a variety of reasons.Now,I'll watch more and comment more often when I think I have something positive to contribute.Who knows?Maybe we are the ones who can help shape the future of the hobby;whatever that may turn out to be.
The reasons are numerous and differ from person to person. There is a big difference between people who are collectors, and people who are in it JUST to make a buck who have no knowledge of what they are buying and selling, and really don't care. I appreciate and respect the collectors. The people just making a buck annoy me and I think turn off other potential "collectors" I would also reiterate what others have said about the fraud that takes place. A new guy is scared enough to lay out a bunch of hard-earned cash on something he really doesnt "need",and the chance its a fake will deter a lot of guys. I have steered clear of signs because of this.
John
I don't think many true collectors have left. They have just slipped into the background for one reason or another.
What I see come and go are the "Pickers", like many others have mentioned. And that has been happening long before that show was ever aired. They rear their heads and profess to be true experts trying to buy and sell their finds.
And when they do, the "true collectors" just slip into the background and lurk. Not wanting to be caught up in the rat race.
Eventually they go away, only to be replaced by more "new experts". I have been amazed at the number of New Members in the past year that claim to have 10-15 years of experience.
Plus, like Jim mentioned. Many older collectors have reached a point where they have almost all of the basic items they are searching for. They have been on and off of here a lot over the years searching for or offering others information, now they are down to getting those few high end or rare pieces they need to complete their collection. Like that is ever going to happen in this hobby...LOL.
A lot of the older members here are specialist so to speak. Like can collectors, globe collectors, pump collectors, etc. And many, as some call them, Brand Specific like myself. If your are talking pump rebuilds, globes etc you won't see me posting. But mention something Marathon and you will have my attention.
My thanks to Jim for keeping this website going; and his time spent and the improvements he has made over the years.
Chuck
My involvement in the hobby being quite a bit a different than most (owning Vic's Place for several years), I will of course have different circumstances than a "true" collector. That does not mean, I loved the stuff any less than the next guy, just that my involvement was far more tied to the economics of it than most. So here's what I have to say on this matter:
This recession or depression that started in the Fall of 2007 has had a more profound effect on people than I ever thought was possible. Let's face it, this hobby is driven almost solely on disposable or discretionary income. Not just for the costs of the items we covet, but for fuel, food & lodging to acquire them, not to mention time off. Credit is far more difficult to come by, jobs are scarce, home values are in the toilet, the overall mood of the country sucks. Any hobby/sport/pursuit that requires extra time & money and is not a bare necessity is suffering. For example, I USED to be an avid golfer, so I still get magazines & visit websites etc. Golf courses are closing daily, golf equipment shops have contracted down from 5-6 major retailers to 2-3 major retailers. The bottom line is, I think we are in a natural down cycle in many areas, one that has been going on about 4 years. Hopefully, the pendulum will swing back in the other direction, the hobby along with American Life in general will return to a happier, more healthy state than before.
In my specific case, although I love my new venture and am beginning to experience something resembling success again, I desperately, I mean bring me to tears, miss the oil & gas hobby/business. I miss the customer interaction. I miss the vendors like Mike Slama & Phil Derrig. I miss going to Coin-Op Chicago & swapping all that inventory with Park Drive (heck I was married in Chicago during that show). I miss having the Vic's Place Auction every February. I miss the car shows at Pleasanton, York, Pueblo, Indy, Minneapolis, etc. I miss my big Freightliner & trailer. I miss digging through 1000 pumps everyday. I wish, at least weekly, that I could go back in time and handling the trials of 2007 a little differently. I still buy a sign or pump when the opportunity presents itself, heck, I'm working on buying a farm-fresh 5 gallon Mae West as we speak, but it's not the same for me, it never will be, but I will be back in some manner or another. Until then, I will continue to lurk.....
I just looked at my registeration date....made me tear up, I remember sitting at the computer registering. Almost 11 years, wow!
I think alot of the old timers are still around. They post now and then. I still check this site at least three times a day but don't post that often. I think the old timers had friendships toward each other and as they gradually stopped posting others did too. I'm mainly into pumps now and will answer question on the site when I can. I've got 13 pumps to do this winter so most of my time is spent in the shop. I've seen alot of people come and go, but I still think most of them are still here you just don't here from them. Richard
There are many reproduction signs, globes, ect out there. Our job as the serious collectors in this hobby is to DO OUR HOMEWORK! Paying attention to the small details on where some of these people who are reproducing these signs make mistakes is critical...Seeing some of the reproduced signs that are aged well is a scary thought. I could see if someone got burned on a sign and they decided to hold back from the hobby for a while...But who forced them to buy that sign? I have gotten burned on a few items, but took that as a learing experience and moved on. The knowledge of this hobby is in our hands. We have many experienced collectors on this site who are the best resource in my opinion. We all just have to be a little more cautious and be "up to date" on what repordutions are out there.
Alot of good/great points & opinions have been stated. I used to check the site daily & post some what often. I, like alot of people that I talk to & see on a regular basis have gone back to their "roots", old cars & trucks. I'm getting close to paint on my '55 Bel Air & if you haven't bought paint supplies lately you'd about ****!!!! Also, I've been collecting off & on for about 20 years. My collecting interests have evolved over the years. I'm about out of wall space & the ceiling is getting a couple of signs hung from it (something I really didn't want to do!) This hobby is strictly "wants", not "needs". That being said, I still enjoy the hobby, just not chasing much stuff anymore.
Speaking for myself, I haven't cut back on the hobby... Just posting on the 2 websites.
Honestly I lose patience with a lot of the "new collectors". The amount of information that is readily available is unlimited, but instead of doing research themselves they expect the membership here to "regurgitate" values and uses for items and..... as if they were baby birds that are helpless.
Collectors who started collecting BEFORE the internet, before the collector books and before the magazines; were able to determine values. How do you think the Author's of all these works came up with the values for their guides? They did their "Homework", they actually did some research themselves. Why can't those who have all these resources available to them at the touch of a key stroke right now, do the same thing?
I have even read posts here where a new member will berate the membership because they didn't answer fast enough or didn't give the answer or value the "newby" wanted to "hear".
Honestly even the most gruff and the biggest "Pains in the ***" on Old Gas (I've been told I'm towards the head of that list along with db) will answer questions if asked politely. And more than a few new people have asked politely.
I haven't met a Collector yet, whether in person, by phone or by email who doesn't want to advance the hobby.
By the same token I haven't met an experienced collector yet, who will readily help anyone who belittles them and their knowledge.
So has there been a "Mass Exodus" of Experienced Collectors leaving the Hobby? Honestly, I believe the answer is no. Has there been a drop in participation by those same collectors on the different websites? The answer has to be a resounding, YES. They are still collecting, maybe not as much as a few years ago. But they are still collecting.... Some because of people who have abused their generosity, will not post photos of their collections. Some because of attacks on different websites, just lurk.... And some just leave the 'net, but for the most part those who collect... are always collectors...
Bob, You are spot on with your comments.The net is a wonderful tool today for the advancement and pleasure of the world of collectors,but hustle and beating the bushes and some luck got most of the veterans where they stand today! Just my 2 cents!
Bob, you've said a lot of the things that I was thinking of.
In my opinion, its not that were leaving the hobby, were just leaving this forum. There has been a HUGE lack of etiquette here lately! There has been a HUGE amount of "He's picking on me"! And PLEASE dont forget, the the frivolous posts, or "I wish I was closer". Now I've had run ins with a few of the forum members, whos actions have been unlawful! And frankly, I'm tired of it.
I chose to keep the peace, and not name names, or cite certain situations, in answering this. But the fact still stands, I for one, will only participate here in a limited manner, and will most likely only lurk, until some of this stuff gets resolved.
Just to say something that was brought to my attention last weekend at a swap meet. Every and I mean every person I talked to that has or is on Old gas has said to me that they are tired of the bickering and would not go here as often because of it. People as I was told and I completely agree are not use to some peoples humor or joking and actions if they do not or can not see them personally.
I DO KNOW that sometimes my remarks or humor may not be taken right by someone who isn't around me all the time. I just do not realize it until sometimes it is too late.
Many people are still here, but as the last person said just checking in now and then and not posting.
We still look for things, and seek help from the many more long time collectors to help us in our projects or just to talk.
But I was shocked at how many people said to me that the bickering just was too much.
For what it is worth.
I think both Bob and Thunder are right on with their comments.
Great posts by BOB, Thunder II & Craig Osbeck. THANK YOU!
I also agree with Thunder II (page 2) that OLDGAS is the BEST FORUM on the web. I have met great veteran members from this site & learned a lot from them & continue learning from them. I may be new to this hobby (since 2005), however, I bring in over 20 years of experience in antique collecting (Americana + American Steel Toys). So, I have an advantage. I know one thing I learned over the years that a beginner MUST RESPECT & LISTEN to a VETERAN collector. Never ARGUE with one!
Also, IMO, veteran members should also respect a new collector that decides to decorate his/her garage with fantasy signs + lenses, restored signs, reproduction signs + lenses.
Hi Thunder,Craig,Tara and all.May I make a suggestion?Might you ask others to read this thread?Hopefully this discussion really can help shape the hobby for the better.
I'm doing just that around here and discussing thoughts posted on this thread with several collectors.The discussions seem to at least get them to thinking about how we do things.I'm just saying to me it's worth a try.
Old Iron, I would, literaly, have to point fingers and call people out on the floor. Thats not my place here on Oldgas. As I've said before, this is THE best forum on the web!. Our Moderators do a GREAT job here. But there are a few people, that feel the need, to stir up the stuff. People need to understand, whats right, and whats wrong. I've seen WAY too much WRONG, and I'm tired of it. Its not, "He's picking on me", its just WRONG!
Thanks for the reply Thunder.I understand.I really do,particularly "I'm tired of it".
I feel that experienced collectors have reached out time after time without any noticeable results. Late last year, earlier this year was a thread similar to this one letting the newer collector know that if they wanted help or to ask questions all they had to do what post a question or comment..... Was like the traffic in Death Valley in August. Nothing but vultures circling over-head.
Comments were made to experienced collectors on other threads, showing and expressing disdain to them and their knowledge.
So some more took a break from the site.
Like going to a Bar, if you go often & stay long enough there will always be someone that wants to start a fight.
I was waiting for you Dick.
Well I guess I'll chime in; The obvious reason some leave is because they fall on hard times or become i'll. I really think some of them leave is because thier HEART wasn't in it. I worked gas stations and garages as a teenager but didn't really start collecting until I was in my thirties. I didn't get into it for the money, hell I did'nt have any then with a wife and two kids. I got into it because i fell in love with this stuff and bought only with the money left over after paying all the bills and taking care of family first. We live in a society now where we want it all now. I know DB gets jabs about the 36-b tops and we clash most of the time but I think I know why has them, his heart is in it. The ones in it with thier wallets only, probably won't stay in it. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;Ron
I know DB gets jabs about the 36-b tops and we clash most of the time but I think I know why has them, his heart is in it.
LOL, For years I couldn't find a top for my SHELL Twin, then I started buying them as I found 'm.
These are my Kids.
Dick, They have square heads with flat tops... They must be your kids... Sorry... I couldn't resist...
I'm not sure there is a simple answer to the question but I can tell you, after collecting for almost 25 years, I can't wait to get on this site every day. It's harder and harder to find real quality items, in my case signs, but they do come up and we have to pay more and more for them but the interesting thing to me is we are seeing more and more "junk" in the For Sale catagory but people, in many cases, they are selling anyway. Someone out there loves the damaged things.
One thing I've noticed, especially at the auction of my collection last year, is restored signs are not getting near what they were 3 years ago, only the good old original pieces.
Some valid points were made here. I've kept the peace by not naming people or pointing out certain examples, yet I still see the same games being played by the same people. I've contacted the Moderators and the Administrator, yet nothing is being done.
Now you know why Thunder is leaving the hobby!
Peace, out!
I think Aaron Hop has a pretty good grasp of the subject.
I haven't left the hobby but I'm not nearly as active in it as I used to be. I still enjoy collecting.
The "stuff" is cool, and the friendships are great. I get allot of enjoyment visiting with friends at the shows and auctions. I miss the friends that have left the hobby, and I've had a few friends in the hobby that have passed away. Some of my "collector" friends and I share other interests as well. Cars, racing, antiques,vintage tractors, even old iron bridges, and just every day stuff. If it weren't for those friends I probably would have left the hobby by now. I have way more stuff than I have room to display it, and I have other hobbies (ok, obsessions)to spend my time and money on.
If you would have told me 5 or 6 years ago that I'd curtail my involvement in the petro hobby I would have told you you were nuts. Things change. The proliferation of unmarked reproductions, and even reproductions in general have taken away allot of the enjoyment of the hobby for me and others. Not just because in many cases they hurt the value of the originals, but they take away the "wow" factor of the originals. I'll certainly never post pictures of any of my rare items on this or any other forum again.
I rarely visit this site anymore.
There are "I gotta have it now" repro guys that are unwilling to put the time, money and effort into collecting originals. These guys see a rare sign or globe and their first thought is I wonder if someone repops that? It never occurs to them to buy a real one and actually "collect" something of historical significance! I've heard all the arguments....they're too hard to find, cost too much... Get off your ***** and network with other collectors and you'll find where the real items are. Do some wheeling and dealing to better your financial position. Building a REAL collection takes time and effort. Buying a reproduction anything (other than restoration supplies) is not "collecting" It's "decorating". This site used to have allot of real collectors. Not so much anymore.
There are guys that won't go to the shows and network with collectors and dealers, but expect the veteran collectors to do their homework for them. You see these same guys asking the same questions about every item they find. It gets old.
The childish bickering between some of the regulars on here has driven away people as well. Yeah, we all know some guys are cry babies. To the cry babies...BE A MAN! Stop crying to the moderators!
I'm not leaving the hobby (or this site) but those are some of the reasons I'm not as active as I once was.
True words, and putting it like it is.
Thanks Bob, That is pretty much the what i would have wrote.
I have been on this site since 1999 to 2000 and have seen things change. Used to be some killer stuff posted even when it was very difficult to post pictures. There was no photobucket or imageshack to use.
Friends i have in the hobby are great friends and i have met them because of this website!
Everyone complains that gas shows are nothing like they used to be and that is true but, what you do during and after the shows make the shows worth going to even if you don't buy anything. Coming back from Peotone i can say i had a blast even if i hadn't bought a couple of cool globes!
I only jumped aboard because I wanted to spice up the garage.
A service station theme while I am building up a street rod. I wanted to make the time spent in the garage a little more enjoyable.
Air meter, gas pump and a few incidentals. I even went to my first swap meet, unfortunately the prices for these items blew me away.
I like the stuff but I may not get all the items I thought I would due to the cost. Just decoration to me but I wanted original pieces.
Several posts have been removed and this topic locked.
One of the biggest harmful influences for the hobby and for this forum is carrying a grudge. We have had members of this site suspended, put on probation and warned about unacceptable behavior stemming from grudges. A few people make retaliation more important than the hobby, their own reputation or even civil behavior.