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G&B Pump Disassembly Help

Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Thu May 24 2018 12:04 AM

I am restoring a G&B 177. The pump handle is frozen so I have tried to disassemble the pump mechanism from the pot. The cast iron ring has been removed but I cannot move the pump face. I am assuming it sits in a "race" and is corroded together with the cast pot.
I do not want to break the cast pot by being too rough on it. It looks like there has already been a bugger weld repair to the neck.
Any ideas to get this off? I am currently soaking the guts with ATF; previously I tried spraying PB Blaster. I don't think heat will work well as the pot is a huge heat sink.

I am not trying to make it functional but once restored, it would be nice to move the handle.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Thu May 24 2018 12:08 AM

Here a re a couple more pictures. This thing is not going to get the best of me. I could stop and reassemble now, which would be fine for my intended purpose of yard art, but that would be giving up. Can't do that.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sat May 26 2018 01:14 AM

No one has taken one of these pot style pumps apart before?
Posted By: 67Chev4X4

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sat May 26 2018 06:56 AM

Here are some pictures. You will have to pull the packing out of the packing box on the pump. Similar to the packing box seen in the . If you have packing pullers it makes it so much easer, if not you will have to just dig it out. Once you have that out the front cover on the pump should be easer to pull off. the pictures should show you what you will end up with. Mitch

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun May 27 2018 01:44 AM

Thank you for the pictures. I'm thinking those things that look like split ring lock washers are the packing? That is what I have yet to pull. I'll go digging tomorrow. Any suggestions on getting them out, and no, I don't have packing pullers.
Thanks, Rick.
Posted By: 67Chev4X4

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun May 27 2018 05:53 AM

Soak them with lots of penetrating oil, they are fairly hard being in there for 80 years. Mitch
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun May 27 2018 01:08 PM

What is the packing made of? I've been digging out some ***** that could just be 90 year old dirt but it has the consistency of dry putty or even lead like old plumbing caulking around cast iron pipe. Your pics make it look like my target is metal.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun May 27 2018 02:48 PM

So 67 chev, your last post was extremely helpful. I started digging and scraping and ended up pulling out string like material. So my guesswork, in the absence of real world knowledge, made me think of the oakum I watched my dad pack around galvanized pie as it entered cast pipe before pouring lead.
I'm guessing this is what the packing is. Sorry for my naive comments and questions, I'm new to gas pumps. But give me a sharp implement and a ball pein hammer and I can get it done.

One other question. Does this stuff extend the length of the shaft neck?

Thanks again, Rick.
Posted By: 67Chev4X4

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon May 28 2018 07:00 AM

Most of the packing in gasoline service is made from the material called graphite. The packing is usually 3/8 or 5/16 thick and approximately 1 1/2 deep or six rings. You'll know when you hit the bottom because it will be metal. Mitch
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon May 28 2018 01:14 PM

So far I have pulled out layers of string followed by deeper layers of what I thought was steel wool and black bearing grease. But some of the chunks had structure to it like a washer. Now that you say it is graphite, that is what the black material looked like. Thanks.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon May 28 2018 01:56 PM

Here are a few pics of the packing from the pump. What I've pulled out so far looks like string oakum but the deeper layers look alot like steel wool and black gunk, maybe graphite. Thanks again to Mitch for the assistance.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon May 28 2018 01:58 PM

Sorry, forgot to push "open". Here are the pics, I hope.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Jan 14 2019 06:24 PM

Well it has been soaking for several weeks. I finally got the pump face off. Severely corroded interior. The tolerances are so close, there is no wonder why, with a lot of corrosion and pitting, the thing would not move.
I'll try to get some pictures up of the inside once I get home from work.

Thanks again to 67Chev.
Posted By: model72

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Jan 14 2019 07:17 PM

Now, take a 4" angle grinder and put a steel cup brush on it and clean the rust off of all parts that rub together (casing and impeller), wipe a thin layer of bearing grease on the surfaces that touch and put it back together. You don't need to replace the graphite packing rope because you are not worried about gasoline leaking around the shaft. Re-assemble all parts and you should be able to move the pump handle freely.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Jan 14 2019 08:39 PM

Thanks for that input.Yes, this is a nonfunctional pump at this time and never will be used as such. I took some of the tolerance off of the bronze "fins" to overcome the gross pitting and corrosion left even after considerable wire wheeling. I just used a bastard file. And the bearing grease is a great idea as I never plan to open this thing (at least not in my lifetime).
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Jan 15 2019 03:00 AM

Let me try to attach a few photos of the pump, impeller and the corrosion between the two:

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Jan 15 2019 03:02 AM

Here are a few pictures of the fins themselves. The valves were free and functional and with a little cleanup they fit just fine.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Jan 15 2019 03:04 AM

Lastly, here is the reassembled pump mounted to the base and it turns free and easy. I did add a coat of grease to the inside as suggested.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Fri Feb 01 2019 04:09 PM

Starting to think about reassembly. Paint is going on.
Since this is a Standard Oil of NJ pump (per the brass placard), I will go with a red white and blue scheme. My daughter is loving polar bears so I think the Powerine is a possible brand. I have not purchased the globe yet but I got this small sign to see if I liked it (and I do).
Waiting on the pump book and some more parts before I commit to final colors and globe.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Fri Feb 01 2019 04:10 PM

Some more pics.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Fri Feb 01 2019 06:26 PM

I do have one question. The pump as found on the farm, had a "contains lead" placard that was way eaten up by rust. I ordered a replacement. But now I am questioning that it is likely the "lead" sign would have been added way after the pump went into service (probably 1928-35). I doubt there was a need to label fuel with a "lead placard" until way later. So IF that is the case, should I put the "lead" sign on or not? What do you think?
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Feb 11 2019 06:50 PM

Paint going on. After my research, I realized that a solid red may be correct but it was not going to float my boat. Brushed on alkyd primer base then Rustoleum industrial color, then clear coats.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Feb 11 2019 06:52 PM

Assembly of pump to base and the upper support.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Feb 11 2019 06:54 PM

Assembly of top (temporary) to mock up electrical, conduit and determine proper length of brass rods. I replaced the badly pitted and almost eaten up iron rods with brass.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Mon Feb 11 2019 07:18 PM

Working on the two original brass placards. They appear in previous posts but represent the 1) ownership by SO of NJ, and 2) the NC licensure plaque.

The placards are very thin, just between the thickness of foils and a tin can lid, and they are beat up and cracked. Help me out here. How would you preserve these with the intent of placing them back on the pump?

My thought was to use a slightly thicker sheet of brass and solder the placard to a suitable sized and shaped "backing" that would then support the rather fragile piece. Any suggestions?

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Posted By: model72

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Feb 12 2019 05:17 PM

Your pump would have had two "Contains Tetraethyl Lead" placards. You can typically look on the inside of the skins and see the 4 holes where the placards were mounted at one time. I think you have a good idea to solder a brass backing plate on the fragile rectangular-shaped tag. Then use Brasso and an old toothbrush to gentle remove the tarnish.
Posted By: model72

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Feb 12 2019 05:27 PM

My G&B T-177 also had the UL brass tag and the brass G&B ID tag. Do you have those tags?
[Linked Image]
Joe
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Feb 12 2019 06:44 PM

Joe,

Neither of those placards were present on my pump "as found".
Thanks for the input. I'll post the progress as I move it along.

Rick
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Feb 12 2019 06:45 PM

Joe,
Any idea when the TELead signs were required?
Posted By: BA TRAMP OIL

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Feb 12 2019 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by model72
Your pump would have had two "Contains Tetraethyl Lead" placards. You can typically look on the inside of the skins and see the 4 holes where the placards were mounted at one time. I think you have a good idea to solder a brass backing plate on the fragile rectangular-shaped tag. Then use Brasso and an old toothbrush to gentle remove the tarnish.


Agree about backing plate and cleaning but could consider using J-B Weld rather than solder.
Posted By: model72

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Wed Feb 13 2019 03:49 AM

TE lead signs started around 1925.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Apr 02 2019 06:12 PM

So BA, I chose to go with some JB Weld but not after attempting the soldering. I could not get the brass to "tin", probably a temperature problem. Here is what the placards look like now.

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Tue Apr 02 2019 06:18 PM

Here are some progress pictures too.
Things are coming along steadily now that the pump situation that led me to this forum has been fixed. The only other limitation has been funds for the pricey parts like the globe, but I'm about there too.

For anyone interested in my entire restoration, I have a thread over on Garage Journal. Rather than repost and bore the internet, here is a link:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413163

(My user name is Turbowoodworker over there).

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun Apr 07 2019 02:31 PM

This completes my restoration project of the late '20's Gilbert and Barker visible pump.

This project has been one of the most satisfying that I have done in a very long time. I fancy myself as a pretty good woodworker, but this pump took me to techniques I had either never done before or had not done in a long time.

I am not an accomplished TIG welder but I got to have some fun with my Lincoln 175 Square Wave. I've really never done body work but I now know I don't want to quit my day job for it. Reworking the electrical was fun but only as complicated as rewiring an old lamp. The most interesting part was trying to diagnose and fix the frozen pump. This was done with the help of a few here on Oldgas.com, and with applying some brain power and elbow grease. Without manuals, schematics or prior knowledge, this part proved to be quite frustrating, and therefore all the more satisfying in the end.

I am proud of the results and my efforts. I am also so happy to have the opportunity and privilege to save a part of American automobile history from the rust bucket. As the before and after photos show, I started with a rust pile but the difficult to obtain parts (glass cylinder,etc.) were there.

Thanks to all who have lent their opinions and advice here on OldGas. It is always appreciated. I have a complete build thread over on GarageJournal.com if you care to look into detail: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413163

I hope you have enjoyed this build project as I have and if you ever get the chance to save an old artifact, give it a try. The results might just surprise you.

Rick

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Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun Apr 07 2019 02:33 PM

It might be easier to send you to my build thread on GJ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413163 than for this old man to try to figure out how to untwist the photos.
Posted By: FlyingAFlunkie

Re: G&B Pump Disassembly Help - Sun Apr 07 2019 02:34 PM

I was almost remiss in thanking the good folks at GasPumpHeaven for their assistance and fine replacement parts.
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