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Posted By: BrianH Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Wed Feb 22 2017 11:37 PM
I finally stripped the four layers of old paint off the data tag on my American 8-sided visible after work today. The serial number is 91215. Can anyone tell me what year the pump was made based off of the serial number?

Thanks,
BrianH
Posted By: Jack Sim Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Thu Feb 23 2017 07:52 AM
Unfortunately there was never a source to determine when a pump was made. Pump companies just made pumps, some sent out what are referred as "Bulletins." Wayne and Tokheim did a lot of this and usually at the bottom of the page there was a date. At this time the pump companies advertised a "new" pump was now available.
So, here am I trying to write a gas pump book and wanting to date when a pump first came out. If I am lucky enough to have a piece of original factory literature, and again lucky enough that the pump company put a date on the piece of literature, I can "guess" what year a certain pump was made. Otherwise, I hope I can find an original ad from the 1920s that shows the pump and of course there is a date at the bottom of the page.

When WWII broke out, this country needed as much steel as they could find for the war effort. I grew up in that era, as kids we would walk anywhere with the hope that we could find a piece of tin/steel that we could sell for the war effort and to buy a $.05 Hershey bar. I also remember collecting aluminum. What we did was look in every gutter for someone who threw out a empty pack of cigarettes, why, because there was a piece of aluminum foil attached to the paper that was around the cigarettes. Carefully, we would peel off this piece of aluminum foil off of the paper wrapper, we would then add the foil to a baseball size of foil we had, and the next time we went to the junk yard where we sold paper/steel/aluminum, we would turn in the ball, hopeing we had enough aluminum foil to buy a $.05 ice cream cone.

In 1942, right after the war started the "Office of War Information, War Production Board, Office of Petroleum Coordinator for War" sent out a request to all the existing gas pump companies, requiring/asking them to please send in a list of all the pumps (by model numbers and dates of production) that they had made.

Of course, as us collectors are concerned, this notice went out to the existing pump companies, and of course, this was the end of the greatest depression this country ever saw. Here in St. Louis there were six companies that were in business making gas pumps in 1924, by 1932 they were all gone, so none of these companies were able to respond to the governments request.

The information from the companies that were still in business at this time was compiled into what we today call the "Blue Book."

The idea was, the government was asking that these old pump be sold as scrap for the war effort. Using the dates of when they were made was to help determine how old they were and that they were too old to be used to pump gasoline. So today, we have the first edition of the "Blue Book." This edition covers a period of from when ever the pump company started making
a pump to around 1941 when all production of gas pumps stopped and most pump companies started making tanks.

Copies of this edition seem to be available, but most collectors do not know that there is a second edition of this "Blue Book," why, because another war came along, it was call Korea. The second edition will also cover pumps made up until around 1950. And a third edition will date pumps to as late as 1960.

So, your request, let me say this. Back when I started collecting gas pump literature I was in contact with the daughter of maker of pump that went out of business years ago. I can't remember even what company it was, but she said that when ever her farther came out with a new pump, he started the Serial number at 3000 in order to make it seem he had sold a great number of this model. So, serial numbers don't mean much, and since the only thing we have to go buy is that American is listed in the "Blue Book" and the first pump they list is the 2487-V and they state "1930-date."

My research using ads, etc., states American started making the 2487 in 1927.

If you wish to look at some pictures of your pump, go to this page of my website, then click on 2487.

Jack Sim
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Thu Feb 23 2017 02:29 PM
Wow Jack, that was quite a history lesson. I guessing dating these pumps is an inexact science to say the least. You got me in the ballpark though (late 20's - early 30's).

I'm a big history buff so I appreciate your story of collecting scrap for the war effort as a kid. The great majority of us around today have no idea what that even felt like so it's great to have you share that bit of history and perspective with all of us.

BrianH
Posted By: Jack Sim Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Fri Feb 24 2017 01:38 AM
Forgot to post the web page address: http://petrolianacollectibles.com/american%20pumps-1.htm

Jack
I have what appears to be a 2487 with original skin/skirt but no drain tube or even a hole for one. Is it possible to have a 2487 with no drain tube. Two of Jack Sims' pics showing the pump interior and exterior show images without a drain tube, so did they come with and without drain tubes?

Pics without drain tube from Jack's posting:
http://petrolianacollectibles.com/images/2487-v-337.jpg
http://petrolianacollectibles.com/images/2487-v-333.jpg

Attached picture American Visible Gas Pump.jpg
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Sat Aug 08 2020 04:19 PM
Absolutely...they made the American Octagons both with and without drain-back tubes. Mine is original and has no piping inside for one and no hole in the skin on the outside for one. I actually like them better without the drain-back tube. I think they look a little cleaner that way...just my own personal taste though.
Excellent Brian! Thank you so much for confirming. I've seen posts from others stating that if it didn't have a drain tube then it wasn't truly original thus they wouldn't be interested in the pump.
Brian, any pics you are willing to share of you American Octagon? Thank you!
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Tue Aug 11 2020 11:51 AM
Here you go....

Attached picture IMG_6689.JPG
Attached picture IMG_6690.JPG
Attached picture IMG_6691.JPG
Attached picture Stuckey Farm Gas Pump 2.jpg
Nice pump Brian.
Heres a picture of mine.
The skins came off a pump that did not have a drain back. When I got it there was no frame, pump or handle.
My buddy Steve (Speedracer) found a carcus for me that had a good frame, pump and handle which had the drain back pipe so I modified my skins to work with it.

Attached picture 20200712_193637.jpg
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Tue Aug 11 2020 01:59 PM
That's a nice pump Chuck. Glad you got it.
Nice pumps Brian and Chuck!

Up to the time of my post I have looked at both of your posting of your pumps for information and inspiration. Due to prices I've seen for these pumps at auctions and other sales on the internet, I wasn't sure if I would ever own one; for example the price on this one is out there: American Richfield on ebay - doesn't have original skin

I won't be starting my restoration process right away but I already know I will need to replace the cylinder since it was severely cracked and broken when I bought it. Unfortunately the pump's nozzle hook (part of hook is sheared off) and the base (one star tip sheared off) will need to be repaired by a machine fab shop but that shouldn't take much.

What type of pump nozzle came with these pumps?

Can you confirm that the cylinder is the 12.5" x 25.5" ?
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Tue Aug 11 2020 03:34 PM
If your pump has the cast iron "picture frame" nozzle receiver like mine, it takes a Williams' Gas-o-Gun nozzle like the one pictured here. The Williams nozzle has round "ears" in the handle that fit the American nozzle receiver.

I believe my cylinder was 12.5 x 26. It was cracked so I sold it. I have an original replacement that is the same size. I think American may have also used 12.5 x 27 cylinders on these pumps as well though.

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Attached picture IMG_6903.JPG
Posted By: BrianH Re: Can someone date my American 2487-V visible pump? - Tue Aug 11 2020 03:43 PM
BTW Terry, that asking price on that Richfield pump is completely ridiculous. Do your own research, but I think you could buy a restored American in very nice shape for probably $3k-3500. I guess guys can ask whatever they want though.
Thanks Brian. I'm always researching, LOL. Thanks for the info on the pump nozzle; the receiver for the nozzle is steel or cast iron that should have two hooks or prongs sticking outward but unfortunately one was sheared off but a metal fab shop should be able to duplicate by using the other side as the model.

The outside measurement of actual visible glass is 24.5 inches. I imagine there is probably (combined total of both ends of cylinder) of 1 to 1.5 inches of glass covered by Litharge.


Old thread on cylinder size:
http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=358432
http://www.oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=650362
Hey Terry

It appears there were a few different cylinder heights. Mine is actually a 25" and I'm fairly confident that that size is correct because the rods appear to be original. The 12.5 x 25" reproduction glass cylinder I bought was perfect.

Also: if you are missing one of the tips for the base I have a broken base I wont be needing that you can cut one out of and have it braised.

Chuck
Thanks Chuck for the info, that would align with the measurements from others and from Jack's "The Gas Pump Bible" book. Regarding the base, did you find an orignal replacement or did you go with a repro? Was the base broken worse than missing a tip causing you to replace?

I have to make a round trip to Des Moines at the end of September to pick the pump up. I then can take a picture of the break to show you where it is on the base.

If it is braised or welded, then painted and primered one day, I don't think it would be noticeable. Thoughts?
Hey Terry
Sorry for taking so long to reply.
If its fitted and braised correct then ground and finished you shouldn't be able to see where it was repaired.

Message me your number and I will send you a picture of the base I have.

Chuck
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