It has been brought to my attention the last couple of days that the value section rules do not disallow members from offering PMs, calls, or other means to buy these items.

It does state that there is no offers to buy or sell on here.

I guess In my mind that meant to not try to buy something from someone when they ask for a value.

I am wrong, I guess I never realized that we all had a chance to try to buy these items from the questioning person no matter what the top rule said.
I was wondering if anyone else had that view or it was just my interpretation of the rule.

Guess it is all a free for all now.

I also believed it to be "taboo".
Sure wish I would have sent some PM's on some items over the years.

Craig I assumed the same as you, that is if someone asks about what there items worth you didn't offer to buy. I did wonder about that rule based on getting offers via PM on some items I put up, asking for values only.

It seems like, in general, people get pretty accurate and timely information on values. My mind is always trying to sniff out possible scammers, I could see how if two or three people were in "cahoots", say two people gave feedback artificially low and then someone PMd a low offer, that would be like stealing. I don't see anything like that happening here as there is way too many honest people giving great advice.

So anyway, people PMing me making offers on items I asked for an evaluation only seemed of bad taste at first, but after a while I didn't really care and since I've been selling more than buying lately actually was ok.

It's also one of things where it would be hard to enforce, as PMs aren't monitored.

You are exactly right Paul about the Monitoring of the PMs and being hard to enforce. I was told this by the moderator.

Must be referring to the Wayne 800? clock face pump posted in the value section.

I think he's talking about the Wayne 50 that I bought. It was posted in the value section and I emailed the original poster and gave him, what I felt, was a fair value range on the pump and let him know that I would be an interested buyer if he decided to sell it as I was local to him. Guy got in touch with me and we made a deal. Similar situation to Kevin and the Wayne 800 I believe. While I guess I could see it being "in bad taste" depending on the tone of the email, I also feel that if you're being honest and straight forward with the owner there's really nothing wrong with it. Just my two cents though. Sorry Craig!

So what did you pay him for a pump most on here thought should bring 15K+ and probably more if he had put it on eBay like some (including me) suggested...since you were so fair/honest/ and straight foward in your range value ???????

And since were being so HONEST.... there is no difference between a PM and a email. Most HONEST people I know follow the rules !! That's just my two cents, sorry LOL

Offers to Buy or Sell Not Allowed on Value Forum

"Is this for sale?" is prohibited.
"PM sent" is prohibited.

It's just amazing to think but HE didn't want to put it on eBay, ship it, or hassle with bidding it around to a million people. Imagine that. Pump was missing a couple important pieces and I told him I believed a fair price would be 15k...which I believe was a very fair assessment based on my own 23+ years of buying and selling pumps. We settled on a price south of that provided I drove 3 hours that night in the piercing rain with cash in hand. Seller was tickled pink. That "honest and straight forward" enough for you?

Offers to Buy or Sell Not Allowed on Value Forum

"Is this for sale?" is prohibited.
"PM sent" is prohibited.

"Is this for sale?" is prohibited.
"PM sent" is prohibited. [/quote]

Yep...agreed...and I did neither. Maybe you should re-read the rule and the original post.

Not going to get in a ***** contest with you...there is no difference between a PM and email, you broke rules and got what you wanted so you see it one way, and seller got shortchanged (whether he knows it or cares). Others who do same thing on here and on eBay will agree with you because getting "stuff" is all that matters...and some will agree with me, "stuff" isn't the most important thing by far.

Good thing you're on the west coast so we can keep doing this while everyone else is fast asleep. I agree whole heartedly that getting "stuff" isn't the most important. I sent the seller an email giving him a fair valuation of his pump and telling him I was interested if he wanted to sell. I didn't low-ball him, attempt to steal anything away from anyone else and employed no other deceitful tactic. And then I left it alone. If he had never contacted me my email would have been nothing more than a free appraisal. Luckily for me he did choose to contact me over the dozens of other emails and PMs he received. Based on his comments to me I believe that was because he felt I was being sincere and fair on my value. For comparison, he received another email from a member offering him $850 for his pump and telling him everyone else on here was full of it on prices. And for the record, I believe a PM and email are the same as well...and sending either does not run afoul of any of the guidelines here as far as I'm aware. But I will say...your unwavering concern for the seller (the perfectly satisfied seller, by the way) is admirable. You inspire me.

LOL...yeah I don't sleep well unfortunately...But I'll say one last thing, here's your words and I quote.

"I think he's talking about the Wayne 50 that I bought. It was posted in the value section and I emailed the original poster and gave him, what I felt, was a fair value range on the pump and let him know that I would be an interested buyer if he decided to sell it as I was local to him"

here's the rules according to Mr. Potts

"Is this for sale?" is prohibited.
"PM sent" is prohibited. [/quote]

So since you sent a email instead of a PM that's OK ? and since you said "I'm a interested buyer" instead of Is this for sale that's OK too ??....... pretty slippery me thinks.

Sure, I understand what you're saying, but here's the distinction: the rule says you can't post "in the value section" (aka the thread) an offer to buy, or a post stating you've "PM'd"(which is tantamount to an offer to buy) and I would agree that posting "email sent" is the same as "PM sent". But that rule applies to the thread...presumably due to the fact that we don't want the original poster's thread and question engulfed by offers to buy. However, off-thread contact and inquiries about the item are not prohibited. This was the point of Craig's post in this thread...and one that may have been lost on you...he was under the impression that the rule is as you have championed...when in fact, it is not. Now whether or not contacting someone off thread about an item is morally reprehensible or not, that is up for debate. Obviously I do not believe it is as long as you are not intentionally trying to mislead or otherwise be deceitful. I was doing neither. As such, I consider it A-OK.

Even for left coasters it's getting late...I will wish you a good night and I guess we can hear from the east coast tomorrow...lol...

Jim Potts created this website. I believe his intention was to have a place were we meet, ask questions, offer to sell petro items, and ask to buy petro items.

I believe his original intention was that it was to be a petro website. Originally it was, but now it includes petro/automotive and just about what ever we try and slide under the door that is remotaly petro.

Guys, take at look at the top of this page, it states PRIMARILY PETROLEUM. It started out that way, now it includes everything from a Texaco oil can to a pencil given away by the Whippet motor company.

My point, is why do you keep pushing Jim to make decisions. I don't think Jim has made a dime keeping this website going, but those of us who use it have made many dollars. I don't agree with some of Jim's decisions, but I have followed them.

Again I will state that I do not agree with every decision Jim has made, but I respect his integrity.

Are any of you pushing the button.

Jack Sim

Straight from Jim's post on the value forum...."Offers to Buy or Sell Not Allowed on Value Forum"
Where does it say you can't buy or sell privately?
Why would anyone want to limit private transactions?
How would that be enforced without the moderators reading everyone's PM's?
IMO it's not breaking the rules for someone to make a deal privately on something they saw in the value forum.

Not picking sides here but I would suggest that it may be the sellers not honoring Jim's request. This is from his petroliana value forum guidelines

As a courtesy to the members who do help with values, we ask that when you do decide to sell, to offer them in our For Sale forum or announce an eBay auction in our Online Auctions forum.

I will probably end this by saying some of us just went by the rule that was listed above that section and thought it was the rule. I guess that there are small prints in each rule. I did not know that and just took it literally.

Thank you all for telling each side of this.

The moral of the story here is that the value section is the best place to buy something, LOL

For clarification:

I guess its all in interpretation of the rule--
For the life of me, I can't see how an unannounced PM or email is anything but a private transaction and certainly not a violation of the posted rules?
As far as my transaction--My PM to the owner stated very simply that if he was looking for a valuation for the purpose of selling the pump, that I would be an interested buyer in the event that decision was made.
Because of my honesty in valuing the pump, he responded to my PM instead of any of the several others he had received. He asked what I would offer for the pump, and my reply was that because of possible hidden damage, I would be reluctant to give an offer, but would give a price range where I would be willing to buy the pump, picked up at the location, but any final offer would have to be with me in attendance in order to know what I was buying. After giving him a wide price range, he invited me to make the trip and do the dealing on the pump in person.
Knowing that there could certainly be damage that would prevent me from even wanting the pump, I contacted a good friend that was local and had him do the visual inspection and final dealing on the pump. A couple of phone calls took care of the final number, which was only $500 short of the upper range of my possible offer, and a deal was struck.
Price paid was certainly fair to the seller, and was at the high end of my estimate, but both parties were happy in the end.
The seller had several choices in which to market his pump, including ebay, but chose to ask me what I would offer, since I had given a fairly high estimate and been honest with valuation of a beat up gas pump that was lying in a junk pile.
I did nothing more than to let him know that I would be an option for him if he chose to sell.
I certainly don't see that as a violation of the forum, since it was done in a private manner. You certainly can't try to restrict communication between individuals, because of a mutual interest in an item posted on the value forum?
Restricting questions or offers WITHIN that forum, is done for a purpose and I believe that purpose is to provide validity to the responses given and to prevent bickering over possible offers given publically. This lends credence to that forum and promotes usage in a friendly and honest manner.
That's my opinion on the matter and certainly hope it isn't offensive to anyone.

ha, probably true...

another moral of story... nothing is going to come between a seasoned collector with money and getting an item that they desire. ive learned that just within the past year or so.

all it takes is one really desirable item to surface... and then watching the frenzy & ensuing stories

as long as seller & buyer are happy, and dont feel taken advantage of, i think that's what is most important

I try to be realistic with the forum Guidelines. The moderators have no interest in monitoring private messages of any kind. So there is no way to enforce rules about offers included in private messages.

The For Sale Guidelines state:
---------------
"Please do not post offers to buy, sell or auction items in this forum category. Mentioning that you are looking to sell now or later will be considered a violation of the "no offers to sell" rule. Posting a "PM sent" post will be considered a marker that you have sent an offer to buy and will also be a violation of this guideline.
"Is this for sale?" is prohibited.
"PM sent" is prohibited.
"I'm thinking of selling ..." may be taken as an offer to sell."
---------------

The "PM Sent" restriction is about posting a message on the public forum that says, "PM Sent"
It does not say you can't send a PM, email, telephone or in-person message.

Do any other forums give you a headache as much as the Value forum?

LOL Nope!

Seriously, its not that bad. The membership is a pretty good group.

The "PM Sent" restriction is about posting a message on the public forum that says, "PM Sent"
It does not say you can't send a PM, email, telephone or in-person message.

That being said everyone now knows the rules.

I suspect in the future(and past)anything Great that shows up will definitely have enough interest here for the seller to get numerous pm/emails, ensuring that he will end up with fair market value for his item. Without the use of Ebay for whom most on here complain about anyway.
Plus you have the guys on here that have no intention of buying the item, but want to make sure NO ONE on here gets a deal better than Ebay pricing.

Well that clears it up for me....I obviously misinterpreted the rules/guidelines and I apologize Petropumps, you were right...I was wrong. In my defense I thought (I hoped) that rule was in place to help keep newbies or the uneducated from getting ripped off or given false information for the purpose of deceiving them "in private" because it would never be tolerated in open forum (NOT saying that's what you did). Imagine the grief the guy who offered him 850 for that pump would have gotten if he would have done it out in the open. It makes no sense to me to say go ahead and bombard a guy with offers via PM/email/or phone calls just as long as you don't post "PM sent".....but it is what it is.

How could you leave out the part of the moose jumping out in front of you.

Didn't want to embelish

Yes, the rule is in place to curb offers made to folks asking for values. The only thing that can be effectively controlled is messages posted on the forum. Posting "PM Sent" just tells others that you have made contact and essentially encourages others to get in on the action.

"It is what it is." We can only control so much and the rest is left to personal honor and integrity that members will not take advantage of inexperienced people.

How about the inexperienced people that ask for a value, receive realistic value estimates from the members here then offer their item for sale elsewhere for a considerably higher price? Seems to me those inexperienced people take advantage of the folks on here quite often. It is what it is.

it depends on which pond you come up on- some are full of sharks.. ...

Interesting!

I got the taste of the "value" forum several years ago. Numbers thrown in, did not impress me a bit ...

These days, with the help of "internet", it is not a rocket science to get an idea for "value" of an item.

The trouble with the internet, the collecting world is so full of "wanna be" pickers, that often times a person will get a fairly inflated idea of what something might be actually worth, and when the time comes to move it along in order to purchase something different, its about impossible to even come close to the values given!
It takes a tremendous amount of time and studying to really have any kind of a true idea what something might be worth, because that value can vary so much from area to area and month by month?
I think the value forum serves a purpose in that it can give a broad spectrum of values from many different collectors from many different parts of the country and thereby give a beginner a fairly accurate representation of what an item might actually be worth.
With the large amount of pickers not wanting to do their homework, and approaching these pages for instant valuation, and then hitting the web for the sale of the item, I find that many members that would have openly responded in the past, have declined to even offer any advice at all!
I get several calls every day because my number is listed on the web, and one of the most amazing that I ever received was from a new wanna be picker that had just left a sale with his purchase, only he had no knowledge of the sign he had bought and was only wanting to know what he could mark it up to, so he could get it onto the web the next day and get started making a profit!
The only thing he knew was what the sign said, and how much he paid! Somewhere in this whole process, common sense has to be present or the whole thing is a waste of time!

Kevin, you left out the best part!! What did you say to him?

I've said it a thousand times, and ill say it again...

If you want a good response on a value question, post a poll.

Imagine how this conversation would've went down,had he called DB instead.

He would have got an earfull

Ha ha. I never liked that value forum. Great idea but because full of people not wanting to research items and wanting instant awnsers and when they do they add 35% or more and run it on eBay.

Best thing to do is just ignore the value section... I do.

...REALLY? it might just as well be that they want to make sure the seller is getting 'fair value' for their piece...